Author Topic: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment  (Read 6817 times)

Surfside

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No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« on: July 19, 2019, 05:43:36 PM »
Thought I would share....

This is my 4th attempt at board building and I wanted to reduce the use of vacuum bagging so, I tried something different.

I placed the innegra on the deck, lifted the cloth that covered the rails and used light spray adhesive on the foam and cloth, let it tack up then stretch/compress the cloth to fit. I then layed 4oz fiberglass with lengthy overlay so I could use blue painters tape to pull the cloth after wet and squeegee the resin. I even used clothes pins to help :)

I've used the board close to a dozen times and so far all is good.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 06:17:09 PM by Surfside »
8' Deadbeat Sunshine
8'10" Deadbeat WindowLicker
8' Slop Rocket
7'8" King's Foil
7'4" Bad Dog Foil
5'9" Mini Barge Foil

flkiter

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2019, 09:26:12 PM »
My buddy did the same building one of his kite boards and same effect happened. He calls it the blue jean finish.

surfcowboy

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 12:02:13 AM »
Nice work man. Does tithe blue tape stick to wet out cloth or do you leave the end dry?

Surfside

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 04:03:58 AM »
"Blue Jean finish" love it :)
Yes, the cloth needs to stay dry where the blue tape attaches to...and it really sticks to the cloth.  thanks
The irregular color along the upper rail is where I feathered the H80 DVcell. Rails have two layers of innegra and innegra/carbon on the bottom. Should last awhile :)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 04:07:54 AM by Surfside »
8' Deadbeat Sunshine
8'10" Deadbeat WindowLicker
8' Slop Rocket
7'8" King's Foil
7'4" Bad Dog Foil
5'9" Mini Barge Foil

PonoBill

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 08:33:00 AM »
Very nice. I use the same technique on a number of smaller things I build. Most recently to repair my Axis 1020 wing that blew out of the back of my truck. Jimmy Lewis uses a similar technique he calls "poor man's vacuum bagging" though Jimmy can certainly afford any vacuum bagging setup he'd like.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Surfside

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2019, 10:58:39 AM »
Thanks PB, after using the tack adhesive, I'm thinking of giving double bagging a try.
8' Deadbeat Sunshine
8'10" Deadbeat WindowLicker
8' Slop Rocket
7'8" King's Foil
7'4" Bad Dog Foil
5'9" Mini Barge Foil

PonoBill

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2019, 01:10:32 PM »
You might try vacuum bagging with table wet fabric. I prewet carbon or innegra on my table with minimum resin, do the same thing with one layer of 4oz glass but with the glass saturated. The weight and stickiness of the heavier resin coating helps control the carbon. Then one layer of dry 4oz and and just work it over with a scraper and a roller. Ignore the dry spots. Then bag it, either with a barrier sheet, perfed release film, or peel ply and bleeder. The dry spots will be gone and all the layers nicely incorporated. It's sort or one and done vac bagging instead of doing only one or two layers at a time. I've never done this to an entire board, nuts for big repairs and building small stuff like foil wings, but if I did a whole board it would be this way.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Surfside

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2019, 05:33:47 AM »
Cool PB. Thanks, I like it!
Did some testing a couple months ago on small chunks of foam. Spray tacked innegra, prewet 2 layers of 4 oz fiberglass making sure each was a little bigger for free laps then did the poor mans bagging. They came out great....we beat them up and cut them into pieces to test strength and see if there were any lamination issues...All Good!
I've used perf film and really don't like the way it leaves rails, nose and tails with all the little ridges. I need some schooling :) I did the tack and hand layup to avoid those little buggers.
8' Deadbeat Sunshine
8'10" Deadbeat WindowLicker
8' Slop Rocket
7'8" King's Foil
7'4" Bad Dog Foil
5'9" Mini Barge Foil

outcast

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2019, 08:11:50 AM »
Seems like a good technique

Maybe not relevant to most of the builds around here, but really one of the largest reasons for vac-bagging is that strength of the layup is really related to fiber density....Minimum epoxy, but mashing the fibers together thru dense vac bagging with a bleed out of as much epoxy as possible

Have been hanging out with an Americas cup glasser / builder, and some of the parts layups he has shown me are incredibly strong
It's not just starting with good cloth, but a vac process where they are walking along with stethoscopes  to keep the vac really tight...
Prepreg/vac infusion  it's all so cool and yet so hard to do on one board at a time

Again, for us, strength not as big a deal...keeping weight down probably more important, and that  finish looks good... so "what the hey"
Too many for the rack
Some in the shack
Some under decks
Some have straps

PonoBill

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2019, 08:31:32 AM »
Most of my previous composite work has been motorsports parts--cars and motorcycles and a little bit of eBike--nothing commercial, just for myself, but I took a bunch of classes to do it reasonably well. If you don't get full incorporation of each layer then additional layers can actually make the part weaker by introducing stress risers. I thought that must be bullshit until we did destructive testing and the parts with a purposely poorly incorporated second layer broke before single layer parts did. That's probably not important for surfboards, but might be for masts and wings of foils. Right now no one is really trying to make that stuff super light, but that will probably change.

Incidentally, a stethoscope works for leaks, but an ultrasonic leak detector like the ones used for refrigerator repair is much more effective.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Surfside

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2019, 08:27:32 AM »
Outcast, so cool to be hanging with that crew!

Why I went Innegra.... Visited a shop in Indiatlantic where the salesman placed a 9 foot SUP on the carpeted floor deck down. This 200 lb man stood on it and started bouncing on it causing it to flex a bit. He did this awhile.... no visual damage! Sold on Innegra! Later, my honey purchased a used mini bonzer that is feather light and durable (she loves it). It has 32 oz of Innegra on the rails.

Interesting reading https://www.compositesworld.com/



8' Deadbeat Sunshine
8'10" Deadbeat WindowLicker
8' Slop Rocket
7'8" King's Foil
7'4" Bad Dog Foil
5'9" Mini Barge Foil

PonoBill

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2019, 08:50:50 AM »
Prepreg takes a lot of equipment, vacuum infusion is fun to play with but the waste cost is through the roof. My first attempt filled a trashcan with tubing, bleeders, manifolds, and the usual vacuum bagging ruined stuff. It better be a valuable part. Works best with female molds too--it's harder to see and control the flow on a plug.

Table wetting is a poor man's prepreg. The high strength prepreg is maintained at low temp and will start to kick as soon as it gets close to room temperature. Having 500 bucks worth of prepreg start to get stiff while you're still working it makes a pot full of fast kick epoxy that starts to heat up seem like a very minor problem.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Surfside

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Re: No Vacuum bagging innegra experiment
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2019, 06:44:52 PM »
Thanks for sharing you experience.  Not going down that road.
8' Deadbeat Sunshine
8'10" Deadbeat WindowLicker
8' Slop Rocket
7'8" King's Foil
7'4" Bad Dog Foil
5'9" Mini Barge Foil