Author Topic: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins  (Read 37135 times)

OkiWild

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2019, 06:42:03 AM »
You'll go crazy trying to rationalize the Toe and Cant and foils on fins. 

This is me now... Never really cared what fins were in a short board, even after FCS came out, just surfed whatever fin I put in the board and left it there. Not enough difference for me to get excited about it.

With SUP, maybe it's the planing surface area, or larger rail, or because the fins are farther apart, or simply because "body english" is much less effective, so a lot more of how the board responds relies on the fins...or a combo of all of it, but the fins make a huge difference.  I'm now $1,000 deep into a fin quiver...LOL  And I'm not a "fin changer." Just looking for that one magic all-around best set up for each board.


jarvissup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2019, 09:15:34 AM »
Okiwild,
              I'm not, usually, a fin changer either. I figure out what a set up makes a board work best, then I usually set it and forget it. My usual performance set up is a three fin set up with Riptide fins in the side boxes, and a slightly smaller center fin. That set up works well for my small wave fish sup all the way through several sizes of performance board. In my performance long boards I prefer a twin fin set up. I have made several "no toe" sets of MR style twin fins that work amazingly well in those long boards.

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2319
    • View Profile
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2019, 12:43:04 PM »
Here was some classic fin talk in action.

I listened while Jeff Clark explained to Kai Lenny why his fins were working so well for him  ;D

I do NOT argue with Jeff Clark about anything regarding traditional surfing or SUP'ing.  He is still a surfing savant, been bigger, deeper . . . done it all and I am not worthy.

Foiling is a different story because we are learning together, breaking stuff and everyone is still figuring things out.   

jarvissup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2019, 03:36:45 PM »
     Absolutely no point in arguing about a "science" that applied to different waves, on different boards, by different levels of surfers has a different kinesthetic observance. Though this is science, it's not rocket science. It's very easy to experience the applied science of "no toe" fins. Find a JP board that suits you, or is similar to the board that you're already riding, or if you have a board with futures style bases, stick a set of Riptide Fins in and see what you think.
      It's hard to do the "side by side comparo" with fins because it means coming in and switching fins out before the tide fills in etc., but you can do it. In most cases you'll notice a pretty big advantage in speed, but in my case, I really noticed after switching back to "toe" fins, the board just did everything slower. Boards with "no toe" fins are faster on the wave allowing you to make sections and get enough speed to make maneuvers, but the boards also paddle faster, which makes it easier to catch waves in the first place.

OkiWild

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2019, 05:13:14 PM »
Okiwild,
              I'm not, usually, a fin changer either. I figure out what a set up makes a board work best, then I usually set it and forget it. My usual performance set up is a three fin set up with Riptide fins in the side boxes, and a slightly smaller center fin. That set up works well for my small wave fish sup all the way through several sizes of performance board. In my performance long boards I prefer a twin fin set up. I have made several "no toe" sets of MR style twin fins that work amazingly well in those long boards.

Very interesting, and I love the R&D. I've always hated quads, but couldn't seem to get the thruster set-up perfect on a SUP, so I tried many different quad combos... Fast, sure, but didn't really turn the way I like. Problem with the thruster (for me) is tail release (slide) is much more pronounced on a SUP with it's wider tail and surface area, especially when there's chop. The Futures GL2's seemed to work the best, but still weren't quite there. Then an old-school buddy in Hawaii sent me some diffusers to test out, and it turned the board magic. Supposed to reduce turbulence off the back of the board...whatever...it worked. So I'm wondering if the straight fins might have a similar effect? Less turbulent flow coming off the back of the board, especially in aerated water with chop. At first, I was resistant to "straight" fins, as 99% have toe, but I'm finding that there are great differences between a standard short board and a SUP.   

nalu-sup

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2019, 03:52:18 PM »
I wanted to give a report on my experience with the Riptide no-toe fins. Importantly, this is not a review or judgement on the fins, just my own experience, which may not be worth much. Note that the Riptides are 4.75", and I am comparing to Colin McPhillips 5.16" on an 8'8" 120 liter board.
I did not notice any difference in paddling speed, or in catching waves. Speed when surfing felt the same, though maybe slightly faster when the board was flat in the water with both fins fully buried, like when riding a swell remnant into the beach at the end of a session. When I am surfing, I rarely have both fins buried in the water. The Riptides felt a little looser, but I think that was mainly the size and having less rake. The larger Colin fins had more drive through turns, but again this could just be size and the additional tip rake. After a few days of switching back and forth, I am now mostly using the larger Colin fins, just because of the extra drive through turns. I would say that both are great fins, and worked well for me.
We all know that performance is always mostly the rider, secondly the board, and thirdly the fins. With that in mind, I cannot say which would be better for others. I can say that no-toe fins are far better, faster, and less prone to stall on a wavesailing board, but that is at an entirely different level of speed.
One thing to note: neither one of the Riptide fins would fit into my Futures boxes without 5 to 10 minutes of hand sanding. No big deal, but be sure to have some sandpaper handy when you go to insert the fins.
8'7" Sunova Flow  121 L
8'8" Blue Planet 'All Good' 120 L
8'10" Sunova Speeed 130 L
9'0" Tabou SupaSurf  145 L
16' S.I.C. F16 downwinder 323 L

OkiWild

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2019, 07:18:39 PM »
One thing to note: neither one of the Riptide fins would fit into my Futures boxes without 5 to 10 minutes of hand sanding. No big deal, but be sure to have some sandpaper handy when you go to insert the fins.

To be honest, I wish all of the fins were like this. What I've found is that 90% of the fins out there are lose in the box until you crank down on the retaining screw. Even then, it allows rock in the fin...and the screw eventually needs tightening. Even $140 fins, I tape until they're snug in the box. They never loosen up after that.

If I didn't have to remove the fins for traveling, after finding one that works, I'd epoxy them into the box...

jarvissup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2019, 10:33:37 AM »
Nalu,
         I think most of my friends(test subjects) noticed the difference in speed after riding "No Toe" fins for an extended period of time, then switching back and feeling like they had lost paddle in, acceleration and top speed. If you're riding really good waves, I don't think "no toe" fins matter as much, it's when you're riding weak waves, mush, or need top speed to run out from under sections that they really shine. I was, kind of, the same way back when I was picked up as a JP rider. It took me a while to figure out why the whole straight fin thing. In fact, I didn't even know they were straight when I first started riding the boards, I just thought they were good. It wasn't until they sent me an Imagine board that I really liked in "juice", but didn't like in lesser waves that I started thinking about it. It all started to make sense when I put straight fins in the Imagine. That Imagine became the most versatile board I owned for years.
         As for the tight fit, that's intended as the manufacturers of Futures style boxes seem to have varying tolerances. I've had some board that the fins slip right in, and some that take a bit of sanding. A tight fit is best for a host of performance, and durability reasons.

nalu-sup

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2019, 01:38:59 PM »
JARVISSUP, I agree with everything you said. The first couple of waves that I caught with the new fins were slow mushy waves, where all the fins were usually buried in the water, and I right away told my wife that the fins were faster. When the tide went out and the waves got enough juice that I always had one fin or the other out of the water, that is when the larger toed fins felt like it could generate more drive out of the turns.
I also agree about the fit of the fins. I would always rather buy a fin that I can achieve a perfect fit after a little sanding, than get a loose fit that I end up trying to shim.
8'7" Sunova Flow  121 L
8'8" Blue Planet 'All Good' 120 L
8'10" Sunova Speeed 130 L
9'0" Tabou SupaSurf  145 L
16' S.I.C. F16 downwinder 323 L

Reynolds

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2019, 01:20:55 PM »
I've got four sets of Riptide SUP side bites. All of them dropped right into the future box with no modification necessary to the fin base on my Quattro and Angul boards.
The first time I tried them there was a noticeable difference... I am now able to clear a section that broke in front of me and continue on down the wave. Previously my Angulo felt slow and often if you get caught in the wrong spot you could not clear a section and then you'd end up missing out on riding the rest of the wave. Now with the riptide fins I've got speed to spare and the board really takes off when I want it to and I'm able to clear a section and get back up on the shoulder and continue riding... The fins have increased the fun factor immensely.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 02:00:10 PM by Reynolds »

jarvissup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2019, 01:01:29 PM »
Thanks for that post Reynolds, nice photos, glad you're enjoying the fins.  I received a very nice email from Mike McCann, a Zoner from South Carolina, Mike gets it too, thanks Mike!

Mike McCann
   
Tue, Jul 30, 5:02 PM (2 days ago)
   
to me
Ian, Thanks for the great fins, you are definitely onto something!  Itís unbelievable the big fin companyís donít offer reduced/no toe fins.  I used my Riptide fins for the first time yesterday on my JL SuperTech in small short period swell.   There is a noticeable difference in speed both catching waves and riding down the line.  The speed of these fins has given this board a much wider range of use now.  I previously only used this board in bigger/cleaner conditions but now I feel it works great in smaller conditions as well.  Great work!  Mike

SUPladomi

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2019, 11:21:10 AM »
This thread intrigued me as I own a 7'6" JP Slate. I love it in waist to chest high waves since it has great speed and turns well enough for me. I was completely ignorant to the fact that the speed may be due to the straight fins.

I hardly use my old 8'5" Hammer since getting the Surf Slate. However the JP takes more effort and technique to catch knee high surf. I decided to order a set of Riptide fins for the Hammer as an inexpensive way to upgrade it's performance in small waves.

Definitely psyched with the improvement. Paddles faster catching the small stuff and so much quicker down the line. Looks like the Hammer will now be back in the board rotation.

jarvissup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2019, 02:12:11 PM »
SUPladomi,
Thanks for the review. Glad the fins livened up your board, enjoy.

dietlin

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2019, 09:38:33 AM »
I recently bought a set of Riptide fins to use in my Jimmy Lewis Stun Gun (SG).  This is my Ďgood waveí SUP, which I donít use very often because living in New England - the conditions seldom warrant using it and when they do, I usually prefer to surf.     

I rode the SG at a point break on fading Dorian swell.  When Iíve ridden this board in the past, Iíve had to make sure to pump it on this particular wave, even when the waves were larger and punchier.  Riding the SG with the Riptide fins as a quad required much less input.  The board was fast, loose and controlled.  Compared to the traditional AM1s I usually use, the Riptide fins appear to have less cant as well as toe-in.   

I didnít start surfing until after the glass on era, but I understand that shapers used to be responsible for the entire surfboard design Ė board and fins.  Nowadays shapers have ceded the responsibility for fins to FCS and Futures and the boutique guys.  Those fin makers offer different templates and contours, but they all go in the same place on the board.  The significant thing about Riptide is that they have found a way to offer, what is essentially, a new placement of fins. 

This new placement has really livened up the low end of my SG and Iíll definitely be using it more often instead of letting it collect dust in my basement.   Thanks, Riptide!

jarvissup

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Multi Year Fin Experiment on "no Toe"(straight) Fins
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2019, 05:48:37 AM »
Thanks Dietlin,
   I appreciate the review. What your experiencing is one of the primary reasons I produced the fins in mass. The really help liven up boards that are sluggish in anything but perfect Pacific waves.