Author Topic: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)  (Read 85120 times)

Admin

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2019, 04:43:14 AM »
Yesterday was day two.  I am showing no signs of being a prodigy :).  This is going to be a slow progress kind of deal (emphasis on slow).  On the upside, nothing seemed quite as unfamiliar as on day one.  I was on the 4 Meter SPG which felt great.  Chan was on the 3 meter SPG and Bill (who has only a 3 meter Duotone for now) used that (as well as brief stints on the SPG 5 and 4).  Bill loaned me his smaller board and with a Maliko 200 that feels like a good early platform. Chan was on my Outwit 6'6.   We were all able to make some solid reaches in surf stance, started to correct our foot positioning a bit, and started to (intentionally :) ) work on flying.  Bill has foiling experience and he knows the foot positions, the motion and the correct sensation.  We don't, and it is a really fun and silly learning process.  Lots of wheelies and chuck-offs.  What I thought was going to be getting forward enough is clearly not.  Leveling off will take some time.  Bill is saying things like, "swivel your hip" and we are saying things like, "fuck you".

Great times in the duck pond.  On to day 3.


SanoSlatchSup

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2019, 08:10:36 AM »
Admin...are you really trying to learn to foil for the first time with a wingfoil? Seems very counterintuitive...but best of luck to you sir.
Me: 6'1"/200...6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

PonoBill

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2019, 09:03:21 AM »
Yes, they really are. Saying things like "we should get you two dragged around behind a boat so you can get comfortable wiith the foil" is met with disdain and verbal abuse, which rapidly degenerates to comments on my neatness and equipment maintenance--or completely unrelated things like that. I learned long ago that unless someone is asking for your advice you shouldn't offer it, but that doesn't mean I don't yield to temptation. It's pointless, and I know it, but I did it. "Don't bend from the waist to weight your front foot, push your hips forward" translates to "swivel your hips". I didn't actually hear the "fuck you" but the wind was blowing and I'm more than a little deaf. But I did understand the look.

I"m going to need a lot more wind to get anywhere with the tiny three meter wing. Borrowing the 4 or 5 meter SPG doesn't really work for me. Not only does it feel radically different from the Duotone, it's also a bit heavier, which means unless it's flying briskly it's tough on my shoulders. I gave up on my dinky hanky after about an hour of popping up slightly on gusts and then sinking back to the surface a second later when the gust dies. I got Admin's 5 meter wing blown up and headed back out, only to find the wind had increased dramatically in the ten minutes I was gone and was now blowing a brisk 25 steady. My three would have been fine, the five was nuts. My three was back in my truck, deflated.

Admin was taking a break, so I swapped wings for the 4M he was using, and the wind promptly dropped leaving me wobbling around without enough wind to lift the wing. Admin had taken the five back up the hill to his truck and Chan was using it as a pillow. I could hike up and back to swap out the four for the five, but I knew exactly what would happen.

Clearly the river gods were fucking with me.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 09:08:02 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Julie_Scheyer

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2019, 11:34:58 AM »
Hang in there guys!  Gusty winds would be very difficult and gorge chop too.  I had a mark on my 130L(I weigh 125lb) wide 7ft, Hydrofoil SUP board where to put my front foot. I agree thatís the key for foiling, knowing the front foot placement.  An unfamiliar board is hard.  They all have their own sweet spot.

I had never SUP foiled either, and learned with a wing, in Kihei, flat 20mph water though. I thought it was great learning that way, because I could stand on the board and sheet in the wing and pop up and down on the foil.   

Bill, the 3m is definitely not ideal.  If itís windy enough for you to use, like 28mph, then itís wild conditions.  One thing I like about a boom is I can adjust the wing power.  If I need more power I shorten it 1 or 2 clicks.  If I need less I can lengthen  it.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 12:38:36 PM by Julie_Scheyer »
Duotone Foilwing rider.  Hydrofoil setup for Foilwings: Fanatic 1500 or 2000sqcm front wings, 80cm fuselage, 90cm Mast & Fanatic 5ft 68L Sky Solbach proto board.  SUP: SIC Bullet 16ft, Naish Mana 8í6Ē, Fanatic 6í3Ē wave SUP hydrofoil. Qb paddles

Rider

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2019, 07:08:13 PM »
So I have spent the last 30+ years learning to windsurf. Been there done that....why not just start foiling with something you already know how to do? Sounds so simple.....

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2019, 04:11:56 AM »
Day 3 was fairly brutal for me.  The wind was pretty strong at our spot (chart below) with some big gusts coming through.  Our 5 meter wing had inadvertently been packed in the 4 bag and I didn't catch that when we were rigging, so I used the 5 for my 2.5 hour session.   Chan and Bill were on the 3's.  I thought I was on the 4.  I was very overpowered but didn't know why until after my session. 

The 5 flies very well, but it requires extra measures.  It carries a lot more water when it's down so its harder to clear and it comes clear with a lot more energy.  That requires much less wiggle room in terms of angles and technique and you have to go faster because it rattles you around a lot more in those sensitive seconds where you are standing, getting hit on the rail with chop, and managing a yet untamed wing (at least overpowered).  The wings add a lot of stability and lift once they are in both hands and in wing position but until then they can pull at you.  This is usually minor but is a big deal when you are overpowered.  You also have to be more careful with the longer wingtips and extra wing width.  When you are not foiling, these will catch the water at the same angles where the smaller wings will not.  Lastly, a 5 Meter wing in a 30+ gust can send you.  If it powers up in the water and flies and has a leash length of play you will find yourself launched wrist first.  You are not going to want to do that too many times. 

On the upside, I feel like I learned a ton yesterday about the wing and what needs to happen.  A low margin for error makes a good teacher.  Toward the end of my session I had a few really fun runs where it all lined up.  I had a foil that was low but level and long enough to begin to accelerate.  I wasn't ready for that so I let up on the wing, rounded up, nose dipped and stabbed.  Kicking myself for not sticking with that one.  I also think I have a better (desired) foot position for Bill's smaller board.  It is wide and I am finding that my front foot heel needs to be out towards the rail.  Otherwise that edge gets too much wind underneath it.  More windurfing foot position than surf in terms of the centerline.   

We are supposed to be getting some mellower wind now and I am really looking forward to some 15  to 20.  :)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:36:27 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2019, 04:22:02 AM »
When we learned to windsurf foil, we always went early in the morning. You should be doing the same, per that wind chart. Gusty afternoon wind is your enemy on foil when youíre a newbie.


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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2019, 04:28:50 AM »
When we learned to windsurf foil, we always went early in the morning. You should be doing the same, per that wind chart. Gusty afternoon wind is your enemy on foil when youíre a newbie.

Dawn Patrol for Chantalle is leaving at 10:30.  She will tell you that anything before that is uncivilized (we are still seeing morning lows of 50 degrees so, it turns out that 73 degrees around 11:00 is civilized) :).
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:45:52 AM by Admin »

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2019, 05:15:31 AM »
So I have spent the last 30+ years learning to windsurf. Been there done that....why not just start foiling with something you already know how to do? Sounds so simple.....

The process has to be fun for you.  This way is really challenging and fun for us.  I am wide open to people choosing another way.  The get gear, try method won't be for everyone but it is really fun and it seems doable.

paddlur

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2019, 05:36:41 PM »
When we learned to windsurf foil, we always went early in the morning. You should be doing the same, per that wind chart. Gusty afternoon wind is your enemy on foil when youíre a newbie.
Interesting threads, nice picts. Hey Iím a longtime kiter,and kite foiler sup foiler as well and was wondering your take on the SP dual strut canopy material and build quality compared to the Naish and duotone wings are they on par with them as to my knowledge the SP wings do not have much background in kite manufacturing could be wrong not sure?Curious how there canopy and general build quality stacks up? In the pictures seems like canopy seems pretty lightweight material say compared to Naish geo tech material but hard to say in the picts?I personally am waiting on the list for a Naish wing but they seem nowhere to seen locally yet, have they arrived yet in the gorge as thatís were they distribute from.chomping at the bit to try one out! Some friendly advice is try to find the smoothest windy area to learn as those pictures at the gorge there without pretty solid foil time whether kite or supfoil are pretty frigging challenging to learn in,beat down 101! Donít know if you smoother water or have a spot like that around the gorge never kites there yet after all these years certainly have to get up there one of these days.On the upside when you do get it wired it will be fun as heck there but for learning tough one! Also if itís nuking and a lot of current you might want try the maliko 200, or even the Iwa depending on your weight,hopefully you guys can find a little more sheltered nook in the river there as you will definitely have some better results, keep plugging away itís all about more water time to crack it, good luck guys👍
Naish kites-mhl lift foils-GoFoil-ASD surfboards fortaleza brasil,Kalama supfoil.

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2019, 03:24:08 AM »
What a difference a day can make!  Yesterday was beginner foiler perfection.  Lighter winds served up our first real opportunity to come out of our short reach, first days spot and use the whole river width.  We drove out east to Roosevelt, one of our favorite Gorge spots.  The river is a mile wide there, so you can make long reaches and it is a beautiful desert landscape.  The whole Gorge was windy, and after the major nuke fest of this last week, we had the place to ourselves (just us and two kiters).  17-20 mph winds and very steady with a very welcomed organized chop.  This was buttery summer wind not the pissed off, jackhammer gusts of the past days.  This was the day we were (ehm, should have been) waiting for. 

I used my 5 meter SPG and Maliko 200 and Chan used her 3 and the Iwa  again.  The 5 is so well behaved in this wind range.  Who would have thought that using the right gear in the right condition was a thing?  We figured it was unlikely that we would be getting back to our launch so we planned on a short downwider with a hike back.  That was fantastic because we got to focus on controlled cruising, wing angles, points of sail, foot position and, of course, foiling attempts.  You can make a lot of foiling attempts on a mile long run :).  We took a bunch of runs, stayed out for 2.5 hours.  We beat ourselves up pretty well, did some hysterical acrobatics and missed our planned out point.  We hiked back about a mile and a half for the car.  Brilliant day.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 04:16:53 AM by Admin »

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2019, 04:08:34 AM »
Interesting threads, nice picts. Hey Iím a longtime kiter,and kite foiler sup foiler as well and was wondering your take on the SP dual strut canopy material and build quality compared to the Naish and duotone wings are they on par with them as to my knowledge the SP wings do not have much background in kite manufacturing could be wrong not sure?Curious how there canopy and general build quality stacks up? In the pictures seems like canopy seems pretty lightweight material say compared to Naish geo tech material but hard to say in the picts?I personally am waiting on the list for a Naish wing but they seem nowhere to seen locally yet, have they arrived yet in the gorge as thatís were they distribute from.chomping at the bit to try one out! Some friendly advice is try to find the smoothest windy area to learn as those pictures at the gorge there without pretty solid foil time whether kite or supfoil are pretty frigging challenging to learn in,beat down 101! Donít know if you smoother water or have a spot like that around the gorge never kites there yet after all these years certainly have to get up there one of these days.On the upside when you do get it wired it will be fun as heck there but for learning tough one! Also if itís nuking and a lot of current you might want try the maliko 200, or even the Iwa depending on your weight,hopefully you guys can find a little more sheltered nook in the river there as you will definitely have some better results, keep plugging away itís all about more water time to crack it, good luck guys👍

The build and material quality of the SPG Wings are excellent.  I haven't seen one of the Naish wings in person yet.  We bought a 3 Meter Duotone yesterday (I have been on the list) so we will have two 3's for those big days when they happen.  We need two full quivers and I will do that when the larger sizes are available.  The build quality of these two brands is what you would expect from a high end product.  Same looks true of the Slingshot wing.  There is one of those sitting at Windance and it also looks an feels very well made.    That said, you will definitely be able to impale any of them on an exposed foil when they are flagging wildly at the end of a leash in a 30+ gust.  That is what kite repair guys are for.   :)

I do think that Naish missed the (first) boat on size options.  4 may be the money size for some men but there are certainly days where smaller or larger will be optimal...and riders come in all sizes.  I am sure that they will correct this in short order.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 04:40:24 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2019, 05:11:12 AM »
Admin,

Donít be afraid to try the smaller foils. IWA for you, Kai for Chan.

For a frame of reference, in 15-20 with a kite or sail providing power, the wings IWA and Kai are still big.

The 200 and IWA combo makes sense when you have no wind power, so like when you use your SPG wings to foil downwind, with most power gone, just surfing it. It could be terrifying on a beach reach with those big wings.

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2019, 05:30:11 AM »
Admin,

Donít be afraid to try the smaller foils. IWA for you, Kai for Chan.

For a frame of reference, in 15-20 with a kite or sail providing power, the wings IWA and Kai are still big.

The 200 and IWA combo makes sense when you have no wind power, so like when you use your SPG wings to foil downwind, with most power gone, just surfing it. It could be terrifying on a beach reach with those big wings.

Ooooh.  I am going to try that today if conditions allow.  It feels like we are getting a lot of lift but I have no reference.  :)

Julie_Scheyer

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2019, 07:12:07 AM »
Admin,

Donít be afraid to try the smaller foils. IWA for you, Kai for Chan.

For a frame of reference, in 15-20 with a kite or sail providing power, the wings IWA and Kai are still big.

The 200 and IWA combo makes sense when you have no wind power, so like when you use your SPG wings to foil downwind, with most power gone, just surfing it. It could be terrifying on a beach reach with those big wings.

I donít recommend using a smaller front wing for admin or Bill to learn on.  I think they will be very frustrated, and the wings are not the same power as a kite or windsurfing.  They need as much help as possible to get flying and itís stable and slow.  They donít need speed right now. 

I use my 2000sqcm wing in all conditions, and I weigh 125lbs.  Out and back, learning to jibe, downwinging, and itís great and very helpful for me to get flying.      Now that I have been doing this for a few months, I use a 1500sqcm and take a bigger handwing only if I want to go faster.   I am also an engineer too.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 07:17:30 AM by Julie_Scheyer »
Duotone Foilwing rider.  Hydrofoil setup for Foilwings: Fanatic 1500 or 2000sqcm front wings, 80cm fuselage, 90cm Mast & Fanatic 5ft 68L Sky Solbach proto board.  SUP: SIC Bullet 16ft, Naish Mana 8í6Ē, Fanatic 6í3Ē wave SUP hydrofoil. Qb paddles