Author Topic: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020  (Read 10532 times)

Wetstuff

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #180 on: August 13, 2019, 07:35:48 AM »
Seldom,  C'mon... any 4yr old can come up with a completely logical story of a mythological hero to save his teddybear. 

No offense to the relatives of the guy on the trail, but I'd sure as hell trade the same number of —knife killing incidents— for similar numbers due to the growing pathology we wave around as a 2nd Amendment 'right'.   Gun Nut should be prominent in the DSM-5. 


Jim  ...in the Army that was smart enough to not let play with our guns.




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Bean

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #181 on: August 13, 2019, 08:08:57 AM »
It doesn't require mumbo jumbo, just some basic stats and facts...

40,000 people killed by shootings each year. How many of those did you prevent?

It's ZERO right? ::)

But seriously PB, statistics on prevention are naturally hard to come by.


Bean

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #182 on: August 13, 2019, 08:19:35 AM »
nice lil piece by a conservative prof at berkeley

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/universal-background-check-law-would-not-violate-second-amendment/

I like it.  It's a baby step, but a significant one if it can be pulled off.

eastbound

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #183 on: August 13, 2019, 08:44:27 AM »
No one is defending Andywhatever,  we are pointing out the absurd defence and absurd interpretation of the 2nd amendment

thanks for fielding the latest bean-quizzle, tom, all loaded as usual with misconstrual of my clear writing etc etc

i think OJ was innocent!! perfect, bean--you are so desperate to confuse the issue!!

quizzle on!!!!



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Bean

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #184 on: August 13, 2019, 09:17:29 AM »
You did say, "the guy broke no laws, as exist on the books"?  And you also used the tired old OJ was charged but not convicted argument?  So, I'm not sure what you are whining about.

PonoBill

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #185 on: August 13, 2019, 09:43:31 AM »
It doesn't require mumbo jumbo, just some basic stats and facts...

40,000 people killed by shootings each year. How many of those did you prevent?

It's ZERO right? ::)

But seriously PB, statistics on prevention are naturally hard to come by.

SeldomeScene is a a former LEO and the father of a extraordinary well trained officer. For him to make this argument, knowing that his son is a rare individual and equate that to the average untrained idiot with a gun is hard for me to understand. The last thing any officer responding to an incident would want is assistance from an armed civilian--they'd be as likely to shoot the officer as the suspect.

Even trained police officers are dangerous in a fraught situation. There was an incident in Portland some years ago when several law officers confronted a man holding a knife to the throat of a girl. They started shooting, and fired in excess of 40 rounds, killing both the assailant and the girl. Which is pretty much what I would expect would happen if the average civilian confronted the situation he described.

Making it a Yes or No question based on outcome, in my opinion, reveals that Seldom Scene knows the argument is nonsense and any detail pulls it apart. Why he would even make it doesn't make sense to me. What thinking human is going to be convinced?

Oh, and Bean. there's lots of data. I just finished reading this: An analysis of the effect of RTC laws on gun violence and use of guns in criminal activity. If the anecdotal text is not convincing just skip to the data. https://www.nber.org/papers/w23510
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 10:12:22 AM by PonoBill »
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eastbound

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #186 on: August 13, 2019, 10:06:16 AM »
bean--enough of the quizzles

obviously i did not offer that i thought oj was innocent---that you want to harp on this absurd mischaracterization of my comments expresses that you cant effectively address the real issues being discussed here--and are desperate to distract from that--i offered that charges do not indicate laws actually broken or not--in fact, results produced by our courts also often do not indicate clearly whether laws were broken or not--but charges? c'mon---so, read carefully cuz here's the punchline:

your claim of the importance that andychenko was charged is somewhat meaningless to the actual merits of the situation

and i do believe that, as i understand missouri laws on the books, andychenko didnt break the law--in fact, based on my understanding, the hero actually broke laws as exist on the books in MO

you offer nothing on this matter except crap like i think OJ was innocent

quizzle on--doesnt feel like whining to me when i call you out as a fool, whose contribution to discourse here is basically devoid of any real POV

wait i ferreted out a POV from you--another! youve said you think Im a specimen like that you pick up after your dog, now you've said you think im whining--nice adds--atta go!

you should try auto-bean-quizzling--might be youll be receptive to it??

nuther punchline: i think the nra's characterization of the relevance of the 2nd amendment is horseshit here in our country in 2019


« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 10:08:51 AM by eastbound »
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Bean

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #187 on: August 13, 2019, 11:10:45 AM »
That’s totally out of context - here is exactly what we said:

EB: jeeze i am a specimen

B: Yes, you certainly are.

B: Which reminds me, I have to follow my dog around the yard later to pick up a specimen for her vet visit. ;D

If anything, I was being insensitive to my dog. Jeeze...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 11:40:56 AM by Bean »

eastbound

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #188 on: August 14, 2019, 03:55:16 AM »
i think you should auto-quizzle at this point, bean--maybe youll enjoy it best when you do it to yourself--when master-baiting fails, youre left to.......or maybe there's your poor dog!

have at it!



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Bean

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #189 on: August 14, 2019, 06:15:14 AM »
i think you should auto-quizzle at this point, bean--maybe youll enjoy it best when you do it to yourself--when master-baiting fails, youre left to.......or maybe there's your poor dog!

have at it!

Not sure what that means exactly, but I’m sure it’s very funny.

Area 10

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #190 on: August 15, 2019, 03:23:09 AM »
Is this the point where someone usually says “C’mon please play nice, will ya, guys”?

It sounds to an outsider like me that the words of the US constitution are held in the same regard as a religious document. And there are the same issues as you find with a religious document: people will project onto those words whatever meaning best justifies their desires and actions.

But, actually, isn’t the constitution just a legal agreement between the people and the government? And like any legal agreement, sometimes it needs updating so that it can take into account new circumstances and still serve the public’s best interests.

The UK doesn’t have a single written constitution. Instead we have a bucketload of laws and individual documents which together act as an “unwritten constitution”. So none of these individual pieces of law have achieved the status of a religious document, like the US constitution seems to have done. They are constantly evolving. So it is easy for us to tweak them as required. Which may be why we aren’t running around shooting ourselves and others: we haven’t got stuck in a moment of time, at least as regards firearms. (And NO I am not claiming that we are “better” - we have our own issues to deal with - I am only referring to the narrow topic of gun ownership and use.)



Bean

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #191 on: August 15, 2019, 10:57:59 AM »
Good stuff A-10, we do have the Magna Carta (and much more) in common ;D

« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 11:11:09 AM by Bean »

Area 10

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #192 on: August 16, 2019, 04:02:50 AM »
Yes, well, the Magna Carta is a good example of how you take the best principles of a constitution and update it repeatedly over time, so that it keeps serving its purpose. I would imagine that the majority of US citizens would sympathise with a little updating of the wording of the second amendment right now. At the moment it reads like something that was copied straight out of the Magna Carta :)

Maybe it’s because the US (as it currently is) is such a young country that there might be some fetishisation of these relatively young documents. I remember a couple of decades ago driving on Oahu and seeing a sign that said “welcome to the historic town of Haleiwa, 50 years old” or somesuch. I thought “historic?”. At that time back in the UK I was living in a house that was built in 1850 and had trees in my garden that were older than 50 years. The church I used to attend was built in 1300. So I guess it is all perspective. If your government (and country) is old then maybe you are more used to the concept that some things that were great historically need to be left behind in order for your country and government to progress.

burchas

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #193 on: August 16, 2019, 05:10:21 AM »
...some things that were great historically need to be left behind in order for your country and government to progress.

You mean like Monarchy ;D

Just joining the thread and read the last few comments. Seems like a comic relief
so I might as well throw some of my garbage out here
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Area 10

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #194 on: August 16, 2019, 08:35:55 AM »
...some things that were great historically need to be left behind in order for your country and government to progress.

You mean like Monarchy ;D

Just joining the thread and read the last few comments. Seems like a comic relief
so I might as well throw some of my garbage out here
Well that’s a good example, actually. The monarchy really have only a ceremonial role in the UK. In fact we are in a panic right now because Brexit might end up dragging the Queen into it (for reasons far too complex to go into) so we are desperately trying to change parliamentary procedure now to avoid it.

Mostly the royal family are just for the tourists.  I walk past Buckingham Palace in my way to work, and every day there are hoards of US tourists there... and the Royals are handy when Trump comes over. We can use them to keep him away from Parliament.