Author Topic: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020  (Read 89823 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2019, 11:23:47 AM »
Medicare for everyone makes a lot more sense than most dipshit ideas like Obamacare. If you look at medicare currently, it's covering health care for the most expensive part of the population--old, fat, sick geezers who are living a lot longer than anyone anticipated. The general run of employer-paid healthcare is much more expensive though it pays for far less expensive people--younger, gainfully employed people. Take a look at the cost for an individual policy for a person with a pre-existing condition. My wife has type one diabetes which she controls precisely. We're paying more than 20K a year for her highly restrictive coverage. There's NO out of area coverage. If she has an issue in Maui it's out of pocket.

The idea that the current healthcare insurance system could be any worse if it were run by the government is laughable. It's insanely inefficient. I find most socialist efforts to be absurd. You have to ignore human history for the last 100 years to expect anything beneficial to come of government replacement or close regulation of private business--except for a few fairly obvious things. Healthcare and financial services spring immediately to mind. There's too much opportunity for abuse and the services are too complex for consumers to really understand what they are getting or for market forces to apply--the market just gets gamed.
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RideTheGlide

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2019, 11:47:41 AM »
Let's assume that 1/2 the cost is correct, what happens to the rest of the $700 billion industry that had existed.  My concern is how do we phase out all that dead-wood without creating a vacuum of fraud and abuse. 

I think RTG might be on the right track.

The only way I think we can get the insurance companies out is to get them all the way out of insuring people currently on Medicare, then stepping back the age. It gives them the warning and time to adjust. Once one segment of the population is fully covered and it starts to include more, the industry is likely to accept it as inevitable. If we try to slowly back them out of everything, it will be a battle every step of the way.
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Bean

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2019, 12:39:24 PM »
Insurance is clearly a big part of the problem/cost. 

I find an interesting although perhaps loose corollary in high-seas piracy.  With the advent of piracy insurance, the demands for payment have grossly escalated, and the observed crime has spread from the pirate-organizations to ship owners who want to upgrade or simply eliminate assets.  The pirates and insurers are more than happy to oblige.  Increased shipping costs are passed on to the consumer.  Sound familiar? 

eastbound

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2019, 09:06:33 AM »
"You have to ignore human history for the last 100 years to expect anything beneficial to come of government replacement or close regulation of private business--except for a few fairly obvious things. Healthcare and financial services spring immediately to mind."

I'd add criminal justice and incarceration, and war to the obvious list---and there's plenty of more gray area stuff---but, from my POV, aint no business that should make no profit from war and enforcing criminal justice on our citizens.....

and dont forget that i believe in well-regulated capitalism and capital markets---hell ive made my living trading capital markets---but there are fuctions of our society that are simply best run by govt

private prisons? eff dat shit

tidbit: what entities have supported anti-marijuana-legalization pacs with the most dollars by a long shot???

THE PRIVATE PRISON CORPS!

« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 09:11:42 AM by eastbound »
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eastbound

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2019, 09:18:17 AM »
yep bean--also like the anti-virus and computer security business--symbiosis understates the corruptness

heard a peice today about how big tech entities are beginning to hire their own hacking teams, and retaining hacker consultancies---which dont build security, but seek to penetrate that of the company who pays them----all sorts of potential bad in this

hey, people whove spent their lives learning how best to hack are typically very honest people who can be trusted with the most sensitive of data, right??
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Area 10

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2019, 10:00:16 AM »
Just a quick question - now that mass shootings in the US are occurring roughly every day, would your healthcare insurance cover everything if you were shot in one of these “domestic terrorism” incidents?

In the UK, the emergency services would just take you to the nearest (or most appropriate) hospital and you’d get whatever treatment you’d need, with no paperwork, no questions asked, and no bills. But then of course you’d be massively less likely to be caught up in a mass shooting episode in the UK: It hardly ever happens, really, because virtually no-one has a gun.

eastbound

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goodfornothin

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2019, 01:32:22 PM »
Hey Area 01, we kicked your ass and booted you out in the 1770's, just so we didnt have to listen to your insistent whining.  and if you got off your main stream media pacifier you might notice some politically driven discourse behind all these bullshit false flags.    we aint giving up our guns, we still have to deal with the fucked up shit you conspired with in The City and masqueraded as the Federal Reserve. ;) :o ;D


To think this mess is solvable in this current paradigm is laughable.  The largest lobbying group in the US is the pharmacy industry.  In fact they had this country wrapped up in 1986 when roonie raygun let any company making vaccines and any doctor pushing vaccines off the hook, you cant sue them, not matter happens to you or your kid.  And now they are mandatory in several states.  so you have a product on the market that has not been tested for dna mutagenic effects, carcinogenic and autoimmune defects and sterility.  Not one double blind placebo/saline study to see if they are safe, they are mandatory and you have no recourse in the courts if injured.  Go dig and see how many fines merck or Gasco/smith/kline have paid in the last few years.    So you have Merck making a cool extra few billion everytime mandatory laws are put in place, yet we have the sickest kids among any 1st world nation.  I hate to break to you, but that aint fucking Capitalism. 


Ther are plenty of you tube videos of Nixon and the founder of Kaiser laughing their collective asses off in the amount of money the insurance companies and these huge HMOS were going to be able to bilk this system.  There is a pleothra of information showing the time line of Rockefeller influence on the allopathic medical money train. 


I am not debunking modern medicine, lets be clear, I have degrees in biochem, micro biology and clinical psychophysiology.  I worked in emergency medicine for 20 years.  Ive had my hands on kids hearts manually pumping them, perfomed chest tubes and cardiocentissi in the field i was a qualified instructor for PALS, ACLS and all the other AHA shit.  Ive had a few patients under my care and I marvel at the current science.  Shoots, ive died a few times on an operating table and modern medicine brought my ass back.   Modern medicne actually put me in that spot, but thats another story. 


We are talking insurance.   I contracted a virus while Intubating a patient.  that virus went to my heart and I had a heart atttack while opening a roof on a structur fire.  I rolled off the roof and shattered my ankle.   It took me 7 years in court, went broke and essentially lost my marriage fighting the clearest on the job injury that you could possibly have. 

I was found to be 99% disabled and awarded 100 grand, my lawyer took 30 grand. so there you go, woohoo 70 grand, but but I got life time medical coverage under CA workers compensation medical program.    TO BAD NOBODY FUCKING TAKES THAT INSURANCE!!!!!! AND IF THEY DO, they are usually blind, dont speak english and can barely stay awake during an exam.   

SOO, I have to cary blue cross anthem. 660$/mo (and that's half off since my local 1014 felt bad that I cant work so good anymore)  just to get in the door when im needing help.  then the care provider bills my insurance and they automatically decline payment because im under workers comp.  then i get a nasty collection notice from the health care provider that i owe like 1 million dollars or something ridiculous  (ever price out a 2 week stay in ICU, Heart MRI, CT scan, two thyroid surgeries in two days and the care of 300 pulmonary emboli?)  so then my credit goes to shit and I send the bill to the State insurance controller.  then they take another 6 months to pay and in the meantime ive been sent to court for a 1million dollar bill.   and as you know, ive been to the hospital and doctor more than once, so its not just one bill.   Ive had to claim banckruptcy because of this.   All the while im paying my monthly dues, paying a corrupt system, and my fellow californians have to pay my bill because of my workers comp.   (sorry that wasn't my stupid idea, I just signed the dotted line when I was told I would be covered if I ever burned alive while working for the infamous LACOFD)

how in the bloody fuck could any sane person look at this and say, well if we just tweak a little here, maybe mix in some capitalism and some govt it will all work out.  NOO it wont. 

we need to burn the money sytem down and get the feds out of this Fraction reserve banking bullshit, we have to stop letting the HFT fuck around with insurance plans and mortgages.  we have to stop leting the govt and the funny money subsidizing the all the industries and let true captialsim and barter come back to this paradigm. 

if we dont, we will continue to have the sickest kids, the fattest adults, the most cancer, the most autoimmune issues and so on. 

carry on, thats my rant



Area 10

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2019, 02:34:23 PM »
Thank you goodfornothin. But do you actually have an answer to my question? If you are injured in a domestic terrorism act, does your medical insurance cover it? I ask because if my house burns down in an act of terrorism (domestic or otherwise), I am not covered. Same if there is an earthquake. So I was wondering if there is an exemption of this type in US medical insurance (so they could avoid having to pay squillions if there was a 911-type event).

eastbound - unfortunately I can’t read that link unless I have a subscription to that paper.

RideTheGlide

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2019, 02:42:33 PM »
Just a quick question - now that mass shootings in the US are occurring roughly every day, would your healthcare insurance cover everything if you were shot in one of these “domestic terrorism” incidents?

In the UK, the emergency services would just take you to the nearest (or most appropriate) hospital and you’d get whatever treatment you’d need, with no paperwork, no questions asked, and no bills. But then of course you’d be massively less likely to be caught up in a mass shooting episode in the UK: It hardly ever happens, really, because virtually no-one has a gun.
I would assume it would be treated like anything else. My current plan has a $500 ER copay at in network or out of network facility. The tricky part is if you have an extended stay, ICU and/or surgery. There have been some high profile cases where insurance companies paid out when someone is rushed into an out of network hospital because of a violent crime.

Yes we have a bad problem with the gun culture here. Statistics show that a 10% rise in gun ownership in states has resulted in a 35% average increase in mass shootings, and the softer the gun laws, the more likely it is to happen. The "good guy with a gun" rarely happens. In Dayton, the police were on the scene and responded to take the shooter down in under a minute, yet there wee 9 dead and 26 injured. High capacity rapid fire arms should be very tightly controlled. I keep thinking that this will finally be the one that makes people say enough is enough. Only a minority is against stricter gun controls.
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pdxmike

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2019, 03:41:14 PM »
Just a quick question - now that mass shootings in the US are occurring roughly every day, would your healthcare insurance cover everything if you were shot in one of these “domestic terrorism” incidents?

In the UK, the emergency services would just take you to the nearest (or most appropriate) hospital and you’d get whatever treatment you’d need, with no paperwork, no questions asked, and no bills. But then of course you’d be massively less likely to be caught up in a mass shooting episode in the UK: It hardly ever happens, really, because virtually no-one has a gun.
Your question led me off on a tangent...I'm sure there are statistics on how likely someone in the U.S. is to be involved in a mass shooting.  I'd guess it's still a tiny likelihood, at least compared to something like getting killed by a drunk driver.


But is it so small that your question is silly?  I asked myself, "So who do I know who's been in a mass shooting?"  Me?  No.  On standupzone, two people.  Headmount (as I recall) was in one when he was a kid, and his mom dove on top of him to protect him.  Someone else here was at the concert at the Las Vegas shooting.  More closely related to me, I couldn't think of anyone at first.  But I had a client dive into a doorway to avoid a drive-by shooting.  I had an employee who had several cops surround his car, yelled at him to dive to the floor, and surrounded his car aiming at a gang shooter in the car in front of him.  I had a stray bullet (from who knows where) go through the window I sit at at work, through a wall, and out another window (when nobody was at work).  Two people's heads would have been in its direct path during the workday.


Then, I did think of two mass shootings here.  One was stopped at a school I've been to, and know people who graduated from it, where a teacher tackled a student gunman and made the national news about a year ago.  Then I remembered a friend of a good friend of mine was in the crowd at the Clackamas Mall shooting a few years ago.  He's in the military, and actually pulled his gun and aimed at the shooter, but couldn't safely shoot. He said the shooter saw him and ran into a stairway, where he either shot himself or was shot by police.


So that's actually quite a bit of at least close-to-personal experience with mass shootings or similar.  And it doesn't count a few other similarly close shooting deaths that weren't mass shootings.


So I know the focus of you question was on insurance, but scarily, I'd say it can't be dismissed as hypothetical.

RideTheGlide

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2019, 04:13:49 PM »
According to the Insurance Information Institute, the lifetime odds of being killed by firearm assault are 1 in 285. Odds of it happening in a single given year are less than one in 20,000. Injury is much harder to pin down.

https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-mortality-risk

Found another source that said odds of being killed in a mass shooting are over 11,000 to 1.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-gun-death-murder-risk-statistics-2018-3
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 04:16:32 PM by RideTheGlide »
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Area 10

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2019, 04:26:59 PM »
Interesting statistics. But my question wasn’t about how likely it was, it was whether you’d be covered by your medical insurance, or if instead you could end up bankrupted by medical bills because some right wing extremist shot you. Which would seem a rather rum outcome.

This question might not be relevant to most of the US population in any one year, but presumably it would be to the approx 24000 who have been either killed or injured so far this year?

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

goodfornothin

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2019, 04:40:04 PM »
you should at least try to be funny A10, my 13 year old kid can gaslight better than that.

Your statistical pontifications are meaningless, more people die of car accidents, should we ban those.  People kill people, simple as that. 

and NO, if you go to the ER for a GSW then your insurance will pay.  If you are broke with no insurance then the hospital will end up billing you.  Your best bet is to be broke with no insurance.  you will get the best care that way.  The state will end up picking up the bill.   If you have insurance, youll still be paying.  The hospital could give two shits how you got shot, they want their money for services rendered. 


I cant tell you how many dudes I transported, while in the air (I worked on the air ship as qualified relief medic) and getting asked, HOW the hell am I going to pay for this, the answer was, dont worry the good people of CA will being paying this bill. 

far less people get shot anyways, if your going to walk around scared of guns, you should be far more worried about getting stabbed.  most of our calls in violent areas was stabbing or just plain fist a cuff ass beatings.   

Area 10

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Re: Lotsa health propaganda coming for 2020
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2019, 05:02:16 PM »
“Your statistical pontifications are meaningless, more people die of car accidents, should we ban those.  People kill people, simple as that.”

You sound like an intelligent guy, so you must know that it is neither as simple as that, nor does this argument hold any water at all. It is like suggesting that treatment for depression shouldn’t be offered because “people will kill themselves, as simple as that”. Similarly, huge strides have been made in the design of automobiles (particularly in Europe) that have reduced the proportion of deaths of drivers, passengers and pedestrians over the last 30 years. But you are like one of those throwbacks who complains about seatbelts, airbags, pedestrian-friendly hoods etc.

Just because *all* deaths won’t be stopped by gun control does not mean that it is not valuable. Reduction of risk is good too.

But it’s great to know that all of the people injured in the 253 mass killings in the US this year (alone) will get the hospital treatment they require, although I’m still not clear if you could end up with huge bills you couldn’t afford.

 


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