Author Topic: Rider Reports - Demos Are In  (Read 3023 times)

Rastaman3030

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Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« on: June 19, 2019, 04:31:49 PM »
It looks like a lot of shops in the NW and national shops now have demos of Wind Wings from the major manufacturers - DuoTone, Naish, Slingshot. Who out there has had an opportunity to test or ride any of the wings? What was your experience and thoughts on each?

Do the floppy handles really detract from controllability in your experience? Does the Naish really have a loop on both the leading and trailing edge to hook up a paddle to use as a rigid boom? This seems like a great feature that is a nice compromise for travel. Does the Slingshot wing have that capability?

I have a deposit down on a 5M DuoTone Wing, but a shop I just talked to was saying their favorite is the Slingshot due to the rigidity from the inflated trailing edge. It looks like the next 4 weeks is when the first batches from big 3 brands will be reaching shops across the nation.

supfoo

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2019, 06:17:26 PM »
I think its going to be a while till there are some reviews.

PonoBill

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2019, 06:28:45 PM »
I like the looks of the slingshot prototype at Big Winds. It would be easy to add a paddle as boom to any of the inflated strut wings, and probably even to the Duotone, now that I sit here thinking about it. I see a nice easy path.

I would have had a review of the 3M Duotone this evening, but I got too excited and dropped my foil mast onto the bottom of Mr. Fugly while I was rigging it at Rowena--chopped a GoFoil wing mount plug-sized hole right through the glass. Damn.

All fixed and I'll be in the water tomorrow. Admin has three sizes of SPG to try. Maybe I can talk Big Winds out of the Slingshot proto.
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2019, 03:55:15 AM »
........ I got too excited and dropped my foil mast onto the bottom of Mr. Fugly while I was rigging it at Rowena--chopped a GoFoil wing mount plug-sized hole right through the glass. Damn.


Sorry to hear that. Thanks for admitting it. It helps me a lot. There are days when I think about going lighter on my bottom lam to save weight, glass only, like with regular boards. This keeps me on the path I’ve taken the past two years. Innegra bottoms to prevent any accidents while mounting 10 lb aluminum hammers.

Julie_Scheyer

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2019, 12:10:22 PM »
I will add my input on the “adding a paddle in case”. 

First, the slingshot wing is 2lbs heavier(1kilo) than the 4m duotone.  So now, you want to add the weight of a paddle, for “just in case”.   Also think about the paddle blade wind drag and how it handles gusts as you are riding. 

I have no problem prone paddling out of Maliko from the boat ramp, on a 68L board to the wind line, that barely floats me, and I am a middle aged woman with no weight training.  The wing sits on your back.

Also, if the wind dies, it’s really easy to sit or kneel on your board, and hold the wing (like a spinnaker) and steer in.  I have done that into the harbor in fact when the wind lows dropped but I decided to go to my car anyways.  Unlike having to self rescue kite boarding.  Maybe Kiters and windsurfer need a paddle.  Hehe

I tried the Naish with a paddle attached, and it has lateral movement if you sheet in, and especially pumping, and then it also has feedback delay because of the webbing stretch.  Very inefficient! 

Especially a place like the gorge does not need a safety paddle.  Hitch hike. Even a channel crossing doesn’t because you have a rescue boat.   Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike. 

Nowadays I'm also riding boards so small that I would not be able to use a paddle if I had one. I can't even kneel on some boards and paddle them. If the wind drops, I'm pretty good at flying long enough to get to shore. If the wind goes dead without warning, I'm pretty much in the same fix as any windsurfer or kiter who's also out there.   

I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.
Duotone Foilwing rider.  Hydrofoil setup for Foilwings: Fanatic 1500 or 2000sqcm front wings, 80cm fuselage, 90cm Mast & Fanatic 5ft 68L Sky Solbach proto board.  SUP: SIC Bullet 16ft, Naish Mana 8’6”, Fanatic 6’3” wave SUP hydrofoil. Qb paddles

Beasho

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2019, 05:41:42 AM »
I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.

Worry about leash breaking between board or with wing? (I assume board)

PS: I do love the real world feedback vs. the unending fear-narratives being written by those of us with little or no experience. 

Just like foiling.  Aren't we all going to end up looking like this poor sod?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 05:47:07 AM by Beasho »

Admin

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2019, 06:02:03 AM »
Here is a first day rider's report (not a review, that would be silly at this point).

Yesterday, we tried both our SPG wings and Bill's Duotone wing.  Both are very cool looking products.  But, they could not be more different.  I should underline that.  There, done.  As a beginner, going back and forth was disorienting.  They sit in the water differently, they react to a leash pull diferently.  They fly differently from the leading edge handle.  The handwork to get them into lift position is different.  The hand position on the "boom" is different.    The single boom vs twin strut (dual boom) is very different.  I started on my SPG and when I swapped with Bill for his Duotone (both 3 meters) I basically went back to the beginning.   But, it did become more familiar after a while.  I think switching back and forth as a beginner won't be helpful.  Later down the line that will likely be no problem at all.  One thing is for sure. With your hands in the correct position, both wings will fly themselves and require almost nothing from your arms, even in strong, stupid wind.  My body is beat to shit today but my arms are fine. 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 08:47:34 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 08:25:03 AM »
Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike.

My Maliko runs are all in winter, and there's a lot of times and places it's not wonderful to head to shore. I've had to come over the reef at Camp One and Kanaha a few times in spots I didn't choose and I've been tagged at Spartan's--didn't enjoy the experience. Doing it with a foilboard and a wing sounds like a disaster. I hear summer Malikos are a lot more civilized, without the ground swell, but I've never been there to do one.

Breaking down on a Viento run is not that big a deal, but there's a lot of other places in the Gorge where it's a bit more consequential. Hell's gate, the Wall, anywhere past Arlington, etc.. Might be nice to have options. And at my size and balance abilities I'm not likely to have a foilboard much smaller than little Fugly--6'11 X 30. I can paddle that.

Also, you've never seen me in a wetsuit. I'd be thumbing for a while. Not many people want an Orca in their back seat.

I've just talked myself back into doing this.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 08:54:38 AM by PonoBill »
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2019, 08:34:13 AM »
........ I got too excited and dropped my foil mast onto the bottom of Mr. Fugly while I was rigging it at Rowena--chopped a GoFoil wing mount plug-sized hole right through the glass. Damn.


Sorry to hear that. Thanks for admitting it. It helps me a lot. There are days when I think about going lighter on my bottom lam to save weight, glass only, like with regular boards. This keeps me on the path I’ve taken the past two years. Innegra bottoms to prevent any accidents while mounting 10 lb aluminum hammers.

Glad to be of service...   ...not.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Julie_Scheyer

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2019, 11:31:29 AM »
I would worry about the leashes breaking!  Need double leashes more than a paddle.

Worry about leash breaking between board or with wing? (I assume board)

PS: I do love the real world feedback vs. the unending fear-narratives being written by those of us with little or no experience. 

Just like foiling.  Aren't we all going to end up looking like this poor sod?
A leash breaking and losing your board is the biggest worry for sure!  Losing the hand held wing is second, and then you just lost your “just in case paddle” too :)

I always hang onto my wing when I fall and protect my face with the leading edge. I also feel holding onto it when I fall it keeps me farther away from the foil.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 05:19:26 PM by Admin »
Duotone Foilwing rider.  Hydrofoil setup for Foilwings: Fanatic 1500 or 2000sqcm front wings, 80cm fuselage, 90cm Mast & Fanatic 5ft 68L Sky Solbach proto board.  SUP: SIC Bullet 16ft, Naish Mana 8’6”, Fanatic 6’3” wave SUP hydrofoil. Qb paddles

Julie_Scheyer

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2019, 11:43:09 AM »
Honestly it would be impossible to not sense the wind is dropping on a Maliko run or most places and to head toward shore, and hitch hike.

My Maliko runs are all in winter, and there's a lot of times and places it's not wonderful to head to shore. I've had to come over the reef at Camp One and Kanaha a few times in spots I didn't choose and I've been tagged at Spartan's--didn't enjoy the experience. Doing it with a foilboard and a wing sounds like a disaster. I hear summer Malikos are a lot more civilized, without the ground swell, but I've never been there to do one.

Breaking down on a Viento run is not that big a deal, but there's a lot of other places in the Gorge where it's a bit more consequential. Hell's gate, the Wall, anywhere past Arlington, etc.. Might be nice to have options. And at my size and balance abilities I'm not likely to have a foilboard much smaller than little Fugly--6'11 X 30. I can paddle that.

Also, you've never seen me in a wetsuit. I'd be thumbing for a while. Not many people want an Orca in their back seat.

I've just talked myself back into doing this.

Sitting or kneeling on a board you easily can hold the wing to go where you need if the wind dies.  With the boom you can put it on the front of the board and use it like a spinnaker.  I think I need a photo.  My example of the hitchhiking is you aren’t seriously going to die, just inconvenienced.  This is so rare too.  The only reason it’s hard at the Maliko gulch is the wind is swirling in there.   
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 12:28:38 PM by Julie_Scheyer »
Duotone Foilwing rider.  Hydrofoil setup for Foilwings: Fanatic 1500 or 2000sqcm front wings, 80cm fuselage, 90cm Mast & Fanatic 5ft 68L Sky Solbach proto board.  SUP: SIC Bullet 16ft, Naish Mana 8’6”, Fanatic 6’3” wave SUP hydrofoil. Qb paddles

surfcowboy

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2019, 09:07:48 PM »
Admin, thanks for that. One unaffiliated person, with no agenda, using two products and commenting on them honestly is way more valuable than all of the defensive marketing hype that reps and ambassadors put out. Truly, thank you.

Looking at this thread, I appreciate that people have strong opinions about technique and the various situations one may find oneself in. But I try to err to the side of hearing everyone out and letting people have their own ideas about how they will rescue themselves. I, at 52 and wafer thin, will have different concerns than Pono. (Mainly that I’ll die of hypothermia while he’s relaxed and balmy paddling safely home lol) but that aside, thanks to all who are posting here for those of us trying to decide if this is something that the non-wind sports folks want to even bother with, let alone what brand we might buy.

I’m also stoked to hear you put a stake in the heart of the idea that these things wear out your arms. It killed me to watch videos of people holding these wings with one hand and then have folks who’ve never seen one speculate about how hard it must be to hold. Glad we can move on from that into real ride reports.

I also love (LOVE) that this forum of largely cranky old folks have insanely sensitive BS meters. Post glowing reviews of one thing while running down others too strongly and we all tune out or worse start to ridicule the brand you’re promoting. (With glee I might add.)

Pono, I think having a paddle is a great idea. Especially for older riders whose shoulders may not work as well as they used to. Julie, glad you don’t need one as well. Different strokes, right? Literally.

PonoBill

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2019, 09:49:46 PM »
Pono, I think having a paddle is a great idea. Especially for older riders whose shoulders may not work as well as they used to. Julie, glad you don’t need one as well. Different strokes, right? Literally.

There's one HUGE difference between Julie and I. I've got about six sessions with a wing foil. But all last winter, every time I did a downwinder on Maui I'd see this lady running way out to the horizon with a wingfoil and then ripping back. I'm still in the stage of wobbling around and having theories about this stuff, while I'm pretty sure she's well up in the top ten most experienced wingfoilers on the planet. So assume from me you're getting the usual bullshit off the top of my head, while from her you're getting hard won experience.
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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2019, 04:01:21 AM »
I’m also stoked to hear you put a stake in the heart of the idea that these things wear out your arms. It killed me to watch videos of people holding these wings with one hand and then have folks who’ve never seen one speculate about how hard it must be to hold. Glad we can move on from that into real ride reports.

We should be considered (Myself and Chan) rank beginners (two days, now) with no foiling experience.  We have both windsurfed for a long time, surfed, SUP'ed, snowboarded, skied and skated a lot.  We have kited just enough to learn the basics (launch, back, forth, ugly transitions, land), but I would not call us kiters.  I think that a lot of those who will buy the first wave of production wings (which are just starting to show up) will have a similar group of related sports experiences.    We are basically trying to learn two new skills at once.  Foiling and Winging.  Robby Naish suggested against that (or maybe he said it would be the hard way to learn to foil) but the air wing is really our only current interest in foiling, so here we go.  I think that a lot of next entries will also be with us on that. 

So, for holding the wings.  When you have them in the right position, they lift your arms.  This is very comfortable and strain free.  It is a very cool and satisfying feeling in itself.  The wing will tell you (decisively) when you have moved from that correct position (range).  You are going to do that a lot.  Not because you don't know, but because you will be focused on a lot different things.  If you are on shore and hold the leading edge handle of one of the wings (either of these two brands)  in neutral position with the leading edge perpendicular to the wind it will fly itself (provided that there is wind).  Move both hands from the leading edge handle to the "boom" and you will quickly find a hand position (where is important) where the wing flies itself comfortably.   Now change the angle of the leading edge to the wind.  If you move the leading edge too far downwind the front wingtip will drop.  Too far and it is on the beach (soon to be water).  Too far upwind and the back wingtip will angle off over your head and behind you back.   This is going to be the situation on water before you have forward momentum.  A lot of our first wipeouts have been from this.  If you try to fight the wing being out of position, that would tire your arms and it would never work.

I am convinced now that water people are going to love this sport.  It is really fun.  If you have no foiling experience, prepare to be humbled.  You are going to do some goofy shit.

Here are some kiters giving it a try.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 05:16:01 AM by Admin »

alap

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Re: Rider Reports - Demos Are In
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2019, 11:52:45 AM »
Admin, Julie, Pono, the experienced people!

I am not interested in foiling whatsoever. So in many ways like  Admin, I did windsurfing, SUPing, even kiteskied on mountain lakes in winter untill it started to interfere with my skiing. I do now a lot of light air windsurfing on local lake. If the wind has some promise I go out on Formula + 8.5 Sailworks. If it is lighter I take big floaty board and small sail 4.0 or 5.0 or 6.0 and do some pivot jybes, helis, yahoos, backwinding - the entry level free style.

I am not interested in foiling whatsoever. I am interested in light days (and light days on the lake mean that it may drop to zero in 2 minutes) on the local lakes to go on big floaty board to go out with a paddle attached to the boom and goof around  and not to be blown downwind. Like I do now for entry level free ride wsrfng. Basically to substitute this light air wsrfng with this light air wing schlogging.

I have four boards that I can think about, but none of those has a dagger (Julie mentioned in other thread that Alan teaches  on old wsrfrs with a dagger to go upwind) - Formula (100 cm wide), free race Fanatic Ray 82 cm wide 145 litres, Naish Mana 9' long 30" wide, and ULI 9'3" and 32" wide.

I think I should be able to stand up on such wide floaty board easily. (Like the guys goofing around in the last Admin's vid are using the small board without foil and based on the kiters in background in a strong enough wind to go wsrfng...)

(Again, I prolly can buy an old wsrfr with a dagger if that is a requirement, but it will have a dagger but it will be probably very narrow, so it will be more difficult to stand up and paddle back when wind dies, so Id rather not...)

The Q is: is it possible to go upwind on those wide boards without a dagger (or at least not to go downwind, and again having paddle in light air even this is not a total disaster), and how? burrying the windward rail?
And because it is just shlogging it shouldn't be stressfull on my arms. Like right now light air wsrfng I shlog without harness under the power of my 5 m sail, and it is not tiring at all.

what do you think guys?