Author Topic: GoFoil 1.5 Release  (Read 246121 times)

JEG

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #225 on: November 30, 2019, 12:37:08 AM »
GL210 is nice indeed  8)

red_tx

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #226 on: November 30, 2019, 08:28:30 AM »
Red, I'm 210lbs so we aren't in the same ballpark foilwise.  I haven't ridden the GL180, but the GL210 has roughly similar *initial* lift to the IWA170 and is about the same in maneuverability.  It is so much faster and lower drag that it glides through a lot more than the IWA does.  Once you get it foiling, you can ride a super soft wave as long as you keep your speed up.  I bet you could have a great time on a GL180, but for hopping from one swell to the next you'll probably prefer the 210.

Thanks Jondrums.
Derek H is riding the 180 here. Amazing float and glide. Love the maneuverability of his rig. Rider skill plays the largest part, but still, that thing glides, and almost slashes. Wonder how much he weighs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=203&v=41FTmYeLEG8&feature=emb_logo

Side note... Notice his pump, pump/paddle, pump, pump/paddle technique. Looks less disruptive than paddling, on every pump.

Thoughts?
-red

PonoBill

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #227 on: November 30, 2019, 09:59:24 AM »
Like some folks, I've been flinging money on foil stuff in every direction hoping to overcome a lack of talent and a fat ass with better gear. I have two pieces of advice from this endeavor. A. Don't do that. B. Learn the gear you have.

Like every other water sport, nearly every change is a variation on basic compromises. You, as the rider, need to accommodate the compromises. The first time I put the GL wing and tail on I paddled out and realized "wow, much less drag" then I got up on a wave and thought "holy shit, this thing is uncontrollable". It's not, if you stick with it you'll be fine, but it can and will move in every possible direction with minimal input from you. If a regular GoFoil is like learning to ride a unicycle, the GL is a unicycle with a six-foot post. It's also a lot faster than the equivalent standard GoFoil--which is a fine thing once you're used to it, but it enhances the "out of control" feeling greatly until you are, and doubles down on the challenges of trickier pitch and yaw control. I've literally exploded out of waves on my GL that I would have managed, or at least faceplanted at a reasonable speed, on the workhorse M200 or Iwa.

By comparison, the riders I know who have truly mastered what they already have, put the GL wing and tail on and were ecstatic with the performance. If you're really ready to step up, step up. But if you aren't riding your current gear to it's full potential, new gear won't make you better. It will just showcase your limitations.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Thatspec

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #228 on: December 01, 2019, 01:21:38 AM »
That is good advice Bill! I'm afraid to look at what I've thrown at this in just a few months but can estimate it's about the value of a decent used small pickup. Admittedly at least the used market is good.

The more of these videos I look at it's become obvious the super talented guys will make anything not only work but look awesome.
The latest being that James Casey video at Uluwatu on what is almost definitely a Kai front wing, seems to be going pretty fast on that dinosaur...

JEG

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #229 on: December 01, 2019, 12:54:45 PM »
yeah PonoBill, good point and I almost bought another foil  8)

sharksupper

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #230 on: December 16, 2019, 01:08:22 PM »
Giving the GL a shot.  Checked the decalage and without washers, it's 2deg pitch UP.  What are you guys all running for washers?  I see a pretty big (1/8" before cranking down bolts) gap between the pedestal and the rear wing, should I run both washers if I want the incidence the same as no washers to fill the gap?  Seems like a good idea so I don't split the wing lengthwise.

I got the 210 and the surface area looks about the same as the IWA 170.  I've been riding the M200 all year, I wonder if I will miss the lift?  Anyone trying the 240 in the waves?  I'm 180# but generally ride smaller weaker waves (head high or less) but not always.

Will take a first ride soon!

Beasho

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #231 on: December 16, 2019, 02:45:41 PM »
GL210 wing is a Go-To for anything from 4ft to 10ft++

I have not (will not) use my Iwa anymore.  The only time I switched to the Maliko 200 was when the waves were ONLY 2ft.  Yesterday, and this weekend, I was in Santa Cruz.  Buoys were 12 ft @ 15 seconds.  Wraps into Cowells.  Grab the 210.  No Problems with overfoiling.  Rides 250 to 600 yards.

Yesterday headed south.  Cowell too small and pathetic.  Drove up the coast.  Waves were 10ft @ 13 seconds.  Pulled off at Davenport.  It was breaking, mushing, 8 to 12 feet in the channel.  But full Pacific exposure.  Rode the GL 210 again.  No problem.  Actually it was a handful to keep under control but worked.  If you can manage the takeoff the lift at the end of the wave is appreciated. 

The GL 210 has a lift profile between the IWA and the M200.  BUT it is way, way faster than both.  Meaning you can get up and fly and control your destiny.  It also stays DOWN when necessary.   

JEG

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #232 on: December 16, 2019, 06:30:30 PM »
I agree with Beasho, the GL210 is an awesome allrounder front wing and when you pair it with the new GL tail wing is like magic carpet  8)

sharksupper

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #233 on: December 16, 2019, 06:41:32 PM »
I was desperate and went out this afternoon to give it a try.  Bumpy, and big.  6.6@12 but felt a lot more like 7-8@13-14.  1.5 OH ++

My watch recorded it and I compared to a similar session with the M200.  Looks like it's about 1-2mph faster on the top end, and about .2mph faster on average... but I will need more sessions to see if it was just a bad day for the 210.

At top speed I would get a rumbling like bad flow over a wing and the top end speed/lift seemed to be held back, maybe flutter?  It also would make a very high pitch whine at top speed.  I wonder if the rear wing is getting caught in the wake of the front wing, hmm.

Some observations compared to the M200 while it's fresh in my head:

-Take offs, NO lift at less than 5mph, nothing.  I missed 80% of the waves I normally could have caught with the M200.  I just could not get any pump out of it at the start at all.  I was back to paddling a 6' barge into big waves, which is,,, stressful  ;)   Half the time I resorted to getting going in white water to avoid the super late drops in the big waves.  Definitely about 80% harder to catch waves vs the M200.

-Low and mid speed have good pitch sensitivity, very controllable.  Once it finally gets flying its very easy to control pitch.  High speed is very sensitive, bordering unstable.  I think maybe the 2deg elevator pitch is too much for top speeds... I might use washers to get closer to 0/0 decalage (both wings at neutral incidence).  This might also be why I seem to maybe be high speed stalling the rear wing at top speeds.

-Turning, wow, yea, I don't even know how to describe it, seemed like it was not happy to go in a straight line... like the wings wanted to swap ends via yaw axis... reminds me of a mid engine car in the rain, losing traction.  Initiating a turn was a bit more lazy than the M200, but once leaned over the pitch was super active for the rest of the carve.  I have to say, even in the big waves and top speeds, I did not breach even once, which is amazing.  I wonder if the tail couldn't possibly use a small vertical stabilizer or something.  It's a bit loose going straight.

-Speed, yep, it's definitely faster, but it's also a lot smaller, both outline and volume (I noticed my board didn't float me as well, lol!).  It's not scary fast, it just feels a little slippery.  I seemed to get up to top speed on it and it didn't want to go any faster.  GPS says it tops out around 20.x mph... at least in todays conditions.  My M200 has been up to 19.x mph.

-Paddling efficiency, yea I like that, definitely noticeable.  I think the M200 is basically trying to fly when you're paddling out, creating a lot of drag.  The 210 definitely paddles faster... as fast as a 6' barge can go anyway.

-Pumping back out.  The first time I tried I got a good run at it and made it half way back out, but after that nada, the rear wing would stall out on me and plop me back in the water, frustrating.  So may exits I could have pumped back out with the M200 and I was just stalling out  on the 210... except for that one magic time.  I'm very surprised by this given what others have said.  I can't help but think that the rear wing could use more thickness so it didn't stall so much before the front wing... it needs better slow speed performance to match the front.  I did notice I had to get my back foot much father back to get any kind of good pumping action, much farther back, like 2-3 foot widths.

Overall, I'm not super impressed for this first session and with how it's tuned.  It seems just like trade offs, no real super advantage overall.  The smaller wings I learned on behaved very similar, much less low speed lift, but a little higher top end speed, and ability to glide out a bit more in the flat if you have the speed.

Still, new stuff is fun, I'm looking forward to putting more time on it to see what it can do, but it's not a replacement for the M200, totally different animal IMO.

805StandUp

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #234 on: December 16, 2019, 07:59:16 PM »
Great description from Beasho and nice ride review, Sharksupper.  Did you end up putting the washers under both screws like you described earlier?  I did that on my first ride and it wailed like a banshee.  I took it out in my second session and it still has a bit of a whine but a lot less. 

Interesting that you clocked the top end speed to be only .2-1 mph faster.  I first tried a 180 behind a boat and one pump and I was out pacing the boat which I didn't do as easily on the IWA.  I don't have a GPS but the 180 feels at least 30-40% faster to me on the waves than my 200 but feel could be misleading.  Agree with you on the high sensitivity and foot placement--I feel like some of the sensitivity actually comes from the tail wing versus the Maliko tail.  It also feels to me like the GL keeps its height in cutbacks which makes it drive/accelerate more into the turns versus the carvier nature of the IWA/M200; still trying to get this dialed.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 08:00:57 PM by 805StandUp »

sharksupper

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #235 on: December 16, 2019, 08:37:27 PM »
I kept the washers out, just didn't crank down on the bolts crazy hard to be safe.  Hearing the whine doesn't bug me, but does make me think something is not optimal.  I guess I can do the trailing edge sanding trick like in the videos if I want it to go away.

I'm thinking the GL240 might be closer to the performance range of the M200 than the GL210 let alone the GL180.  Smaller is always faster, but slow speed performance suffers.  I didn't realize how much I rely on the M200's slow speed take off ability to catch waves.  The 210 just didn't have it at all.

I will ride the GL for a while and then switch back to the M200 to get a good back to back comparison.  Can't judge anything 100% in one session.  It wasn't the greatest conditions today for testing.  On a good day I might get a different experience with some of these things.  Very interesting riding something totally different!


JEG

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #236 on: December 17, 2019, 01:24:33 AM »
I don't use washers on the 18W and there's no need to.
I can't understand why you would wanna play with angle unless your board has either too much rocker or reverse rocker but you can control the pitch anyway on takeoff and during flights.
I never had those issues you mention sharksupper and it took me a few sessions to get to know the GL210 (I also had the M200 and IWA wings). With GL210 I 1st tried it with the kai and didn't like it then I went to maliko tail but I outgrow it after a few sessions and went to kai and like that and then I made a decision to the 18W and wow, a game-changer for me.

Thatspec

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #237 on: December 17, 2019, 01:53:33 AM »
I also wondered what to do with the washers if I didn't want to change the angle, both in or both out. Ultimately left both out and am perfectly happy, no whine which would appear to be just luck (Iwa front).

19mph out of the M200 sounds pretty good. Wonder if you had sme kelp or weed when using the GL210, surprised you didn't record higher speeds. GL180 appears to be highest AR via the stats in the Google file, assuming it's not thicker it should be fastest.

jondrums

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #238 on: December 17, 2019, 12:12:00 PM »
Your experience is not at all correlated to mine.  On my very first session on the GL210, it was immediately obvious that it is way faster and smoother than the either the IWA or M200.  The M200 has always been a dog, clearly slower and less maneuverable than the IWA.  The cut maliko tail really helped but in comparison the GL210 is like a rocketship.  I found it does just about everything better, smoother takeoff, faster top end, more maneuverable, and pumps better.  I do agree that it has less low speed lift than the M200, but for me this was only a slight difference.

Two ideas of what could be causing the issues you found:
1) I'm thinking you could be doing something wrong with the tail.  I personally bolted mine on exactly as it came (no washers or any angle modification).
2) the GL wings are much much much more sensitive to fouling by debris.  Pretty much any amount of cut up seaweed in the water makes it ride like crap. Slow, not much lift, etc.  It seems pretty common when the swell is pumping in Santa Cruz that there will be a lot of stray seaweed bits floating around - what was the water quality like?

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« Reply #239 on: December 17, 2019, 02:48:53 PM »
I don't use washers on the 18W and there's no need to.
I can't understand why you would wanna play with angle unless your board has either too much rocker or reverse rocker but you can control the pitch anyway on takeoff and during flights.
I never had those issues you mention sharksupper and it took me a few sessions to get to know the GL210 (I also had the M200 and IWA wings). With GL210 I 1st tried it with the kai and didn't like it then I went to maliko tail but I outgrow it after a few sessions and went to kai and like that and then I made a decision to the 18W and wow, a game-changer for me.
I threw the 18N on with the Iwa, and didn't find it to have enough lift for where I wanted/needed to stand on the board (didn't want to move my feet back, and didn't want to move the foil forward), so I added two washers to there rear screw, and found that that was then a little too much lift for what I was looking for.

I've since removed one washer to see how that goes, but the last time out I threw the Kai stab back on, and again had way too much fun for the conditions I was in. I do plan on trying the 18N again, but honestly, the Kai stab is really fun in all conditions I've had it in so far, so the 18N is gonna really have to do a lot better than it has the few times I've had it out...and I'm not sure an 1/8" washer is gonna be the miracle missing link...but hey, who knows...might as well give it a shot.

Me: 6'1"/185...6'0" Kings Foil Board...6'0" Chelu Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.