Author Topic: Advice on size for first time build  (Read 3570 times)

SupScott

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Advice on size for first time build
« on: June 07, 2019, 02:16:43 PM »
Hi,
Iím looking for advice for a first-time build for surfing the rare waves of the Irish Sea. My local break in Dublin is usually only knee high mush, from short period wind swell. It'll maybe get waist high on an even rarer good day. Iím 6ft @ 180lbs, 41yo and Iíve been riding a 10í7 inflatable from Decathlon for the last 3 years. Itís 32Ē wide, 6Ē thick @ 310L. Iím well beyond beginner level now and need a hard board to progress, the inflatable can be retired to days with the kids.
Not much 2nd hand market here for surf sups and a self build has been in my head for too long, probably from lurking on the Zone!
I want something thatís just as good in the small waves coz thatís my bread Ďn butter. Iíve surfed a friendís hard board of similar length and width with only (only ;) ) 170 litres so I donít mind stepping down in volume from there.
Would anyone with more experience like to suggest a shape/size/volume for me? I reckon a classic longboard shape would go well, but not sure on size. Not really interested in flat water cruising. Need to keep it simple too as itís my first build  :)  Long term plan would be to build another board more performance oriented if this goes well. High hopes, eh!

Thanks
Scott

burchas

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 05:04:09 PM »
Welcome to the zone SupScott :)

I canít say I envy you with the amount of information coming your way.
If youíve been lurking on the zone for a while, youíll know what I mean ;)

It sounds like you already know more or less what kind of board youíre looking
to have, longboard style, 10-11 foot, 150-170 volume.

Maybe you can narrow down the answers youíll get by what kind of features,
Shape wise, worth considering and what style riding most interests you.

If you could demo more boards that seems like a good fit for what youíre looking
To have, I think it will help you a lot. I know it did for me before I went with my shape.
- M15 15x27x4.5 https://bit.ly/2WmuEpt
- Ocean Ripple 16x25 @ 251L
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- Wide Tail 10x31x4 @ 149L
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
- Kialoa Hulu 87
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86

surfcowboy

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 09:36:18 PM »
Lol Burchas. But itís true, we have tons of info here. ;)

Iíd offer that making a mid length or short board like a fish first is way easier and letís you mess up a few materials instead of a lot of material on a 10í longboard SUP.

In good news a 10í -11í small wave board can be super easy to shape. Glassing is more of a challenge. Another option to learn is to make a small boogie board or something to learn to glass. I made 2 handplanes and when the second one turned out good enough, I started a board.

Good luck, Iím 99% sure you wonít follow this advice but thatís also fun. Hopefully youíll end up more to the BigGreen/magentawave side and less like the guy who made those giant flat water molded boards out of like $1000 worth of resin and glass that weíve yet to see completed. (If that guy reads this, please post up. Thereís no shame in trying something. I built a foil that Iíll likely never surf but man, I learned so much and Iíll bet I surf my second foil.)

Canít wait to see your second board man. Building is super fun.

PaddleSpot

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 10:55:31 PM »

Hi

Did you look at Atuacores website for a pre-shaped blank and the supplies ?

https://www.atuacores.com/surfshop/127-mod%C3%A8les-sup-paddle

Olivier Drut
PaddleSpot.net  - Find your next SUP spot

SupScott

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 10:29:55 AM »
I just got my hot-wire cutter working in the last couple of days so I'm gonna try shape my own from builders merchant's EPS sheets. I hadn't come across Atuacores but I'll take a look at their other equipment and see how they compare with local suppliers.

I'm mostly looking for a board that glides well and catches the small stuff. But also want to be able to throw in turns if the waves are big enough. I guess my style (if I have one) is suited to longboarding. I get across to the Atlantic coast a few times a year so I'd like it to be usable when waves are head-high, which is as big as I've taken the inflatable into.

Thanks surfcowboy, I'm a bit over-methodical so I'll probably try shape a rail and concave bottom on some scrap foam first :)

Thanks,
Scott

surfcowboy

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2019, 12:32:22 AM »
Yes, definitely work on scrap foam and practice for sure. Especially on glassing. These things are gigantic and itís hard to get the glass wet before the epoxy starts to kick as a beginner.

One thing Iíll pass on. DW on here, who is a truly great shaper, talked me out of concaves and v when I started and so far Iíve had no need of them for SUP.

A lot of great boards are dead flat on the bottom. Makes them fast and if you decide you need it, you can do it on the next board you shape. But unless youíre an absolute master surfer, you very likely wonít be able to notice that 5mm of concave in the bottom. I did not.

burchas

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2019, 05:49:03 AM »
One thing Iíll pass on. DW on here, who is a truly great shaper, talked me out of concaves and v when I started and so far Iíve had no need of them for SUP.

^+1
Great advice! Turned out be great and predictable ride for me when I went with flat on my recent board. The board before that had a double barrel concave to V
and I could really feel it stalling in critical moments, turn out it easy to f*ck-up the flow. The other thing I'll add is copying a proven rocker line. Yup, that's another
lesson learned the hard way ::)
- M15 15x27x4.5 https://bit.ly/2WmuEpt
- Ocean Ripple 16x25 @ 251L
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- Wide Tail 10x31x4 @ 149L
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
- Kialoa Hulu 87
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86

SupScott

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2019, 05:52:08 AM »
Flat bottom it is so! In fairness, my inflatable is flat and I found it to have more glide in the small stuff compared to another hard board I've tried, a Fatstick Red Ripper.

The other thing I'll add is copying a proven rocker line.
So what constitutes a proven rocker line? Any production scale board? Any recommendations?

Thanks

TallDude

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 11:07:00 AM »
Flat bottom it is so! In fairness, my inflatable is flat and I found it to have more glide in the small stuff compared to another hard board I've tried, a Fatstick Red Ripper.

The other thing I'll add is copying a proven rocker line.
So what constitutes a proven rocker line? Any production scale board? Any recommendations?

Thanks
Ahhh... yes????  The magic rocker is the Holy Grail.  Continuous vs. Staged

Scott, Look at the link at the bottom of my tag line. That's where you need to start. Shape 3Dx. From there you can start to understand the design components.
Here's a link to some basic's on design..  http://www.surfscience.com/topics/surfboard-anatomy/rocker/different-rocker-shapes
You can pm me if you need help.

burchas

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 01:27:01 PM »
Flat bottom it is so! In fairness, my inflatable is flat and I found it to have more glide in the small stuff compared to another hard board I've tried, a Fatstick Red Ripper.

The other thing I'll add is copying a proven rocker line.
So what constitutes a proven rocker line? Any production scale board? Any recommendations?

Thanks

My starting point was the Naish Nalu. The good thing about Naish models is
The variety of sizes they have.  Iím sure one of these weíll match your specs.

The other good thing about Naish is the 3D models they have of the boards.
Can be very helpful.

Iíd also take a look at fanatic website. The Stylemaster longboard with a
different rocker line, 3D model available as well.

Iíll echo Talldude about Shape 3D. Really addicting but I learned so much using it.
- M15 15x27x4.5 https://bit.ly/2WmuEpt
- Ocean Ripple 16x25 @ 251L
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- Wide Tail 10x31x4 @ 149L
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
- Kialoa Hulu 87
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86

SupScott

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 09:08:47 AM »
Thanks TallDude & Burchas. Been busy with work and holidays but back into it now  :)
There's some features in the current Lite edition of Shape 3Dx which aren't available any more (such as superimposing a ghost image). I did the design in BoardCAD as I wanted to stay close to my iSup's outline. I'd already started playing with BoardCAD anyway so in combination with the shape3D tutorial I've made good progress. I have an outline and profile that I'm happy with, its 10'7" x 31" x 4 1/8" and came in at 151L. But I wonder if the nose and tail are thick enough, especially for attempting nose-riding.
Tail: 0.9", Nose: 0.625"

Any thoughts?

surfcowboy

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 07:44:14 PM »
Others can weigh in but Iíd add a half inch to both of those measurements for a 10í sup unless itís extremely low volume.

Area 10

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 01:18:42 AM »
Honestly, it would be cheaper for you to buy a new board from Gong. And youíd end up with a better design. Only go the self-build route if you really just want to build a board. Donít do it because you think it will be cheaper or that youíll end up with anything that youíll actually want to use.

Last year I bought two boards from Gong: a 12-6 surf cruiser, and a 11ft longboard. They are full wood sandwich with carbon reinforced decks and Kevlar rails. The fit and finish is excellent and they are proving very durable, and have FCSII boxes, decent deck pads, and really nice handles. Each of them cost around 600 GBP delivered. If you made those boards, youíd spend more on materials alone.

A more expensive, but still good value, option for mushy small surf conditions is one of the Hypr Hawaii boards. They do some very stable low volume all-round/surf SUPs that would maximise your fun. It would be a million miles better than your inflatable. The UK distributor is called Richard and you can contact him on FB etc. And no, Iím not connected to either Hypr or Gong. But I do surf conditions like you describe, a lot.

SupScott

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2019, 03:01:15 PM »
Honestly, it would be cheaper for you to buy a new board from Gong. And youíd end up with a better design. Only go the self-build route if you really just want to build a board. Donít do it because you think it will be cheaper or that youíll end up with anything that youíll actually want to use.
Haha, you've thrown me into turmoil! ;D
Originally, I started out just wanting to progress to a hard board from the inflatable but the self-build idea got into my mind somehow and got legs. In fairness, it'd probably take me a year to get around to finishing a project like this and/or take over lots of other things I could be doing. I must have changed my mind a half dozen times over the weekend but I think I'll heed your advice Area 10.
I've had a look into the Gong boards and the NFA 10' @140L looks like it'd be a good option for someone of my size and ability, don't want to go too small. The Pack option of board, leash, bag, paddle is coming in at just over Ä1K. Delivery alone is over one hundred euro. You definitely got a good price. Remarkably, even my wife is encouraging me to buy a production board and skip the self-build journey!

I sure like the notion of a self-build, maybe I can think about it again some time in the future when the kids are older and not hanging off me! Gotta stop lurking in the Shape Shack  ;D

Thanks to all
Scott

Area 10

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Re: Advice on size for first time build
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2019, 04:17:00 PM »
Yeah I got a good deal from Gong on end-of-year stock. But their prices are still amazing - they are full PVC sandwich boards, after all, which you usually only get on high-end boards like Jimmy Lewis etc.

Virtually any hard board will be a great step up from your inflatable. The NFA is a really great board. But would the 10ft be too much of a leap for you in those conditions? Big boards tend to be more fun in small weak mushy conditions. So donít rule out the 11ft NFA maybe. Youíll love the extra stability, and if your waves are really crappy, you arenít going to be pulling any fancy manoeuvres anyway. The 11ft will still be hugely better to surf than your inflatable: not even in the same class, in fact.

A good thing about buying a production board is that if you buy a popular model it will have resale value when you decide to move on. A home-grown board will be worth absolutely zip, even if you have poured a thousand pounds-worth of materials into it. Youíd probably end up sticking it on the wall, or making a table out of it etc because you canít sell it.