Author Topic: Roll Handles for WingSurfing  (Read 3646 times)

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Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« on: June 04, 2019, 05:03:26 AM »
Watching the early videos it looks like there is a real need for a roll control handle in sailing (winging?) position.  The booms and handles aren't giving any leverage and there are tons of examples the wings rolling in the rider's hands/wrists.  Roll control isn't an issue in Windsurfing due to the fixed mast foot and in kiting roll is easily controllable due to the wide line connection points.  This is really unique to Wingsurfing.  My first mod is going to be a little carbon bar lashed perpendicular to the boom strut at the front hand.  I think that should add a lot of control while learning (and I will need all the help I can get :) ). 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 05:08:50 AM by Admin »

ninja tuna

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 06:42:13 AM »
Could you post one of these videos that you are talking about.  Not totally understanding your explanation.

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 08:17:32 AM »
Could you post one of these videos that you are talking about.  Not totally understanding your explanation.

I am seeing it in most of the videos to varying degrees.  The problem is that we are trying to control a wing with a ton of leverage from the wingtips from a very narrow center position ("horizontal" booms or handles on a single strut).  I see no way that we are going to get any meaningful control (over roll) with our hands in handlebar position.  I think a "vertical" front hand position option (if we are calling the current position horizontal) preferably with a broad attachment points will help a lot (it won't be perfect). 

You can see the issue clearly in this vid with a new rider but look for it in most vids and I think you will see it.  Lower wing tip dropping or both wingtips controlling the roll.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 08:20:07 AM by Admin »

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2019, 08:19:19 AM »

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2019, 08:31:05 AM »
My plan (it works in my head :) ) is to attach a carbon tube between the two struts and in the indent between two existing handles.  I imagine his hand in the image below is a natural balance point so the actual placement for the front hand bar will likely be fairly close to the leading edge where there should be good rigidity.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 08:55:32 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2019, 09:47:57 AM »
Sounds good, but no. As soon as you get one in your hands and play a bit you'll see that you won't be controlling roll with muscle power and wrists, you do it with the attitude angle of the wing. Nose up raises the lower wingtip and flattens the wing into the wind, nose down lowers the wingtip. You need to be fairly precise with this angle, and it might be nice to have more leverage for those times when it's not easy to tune that angle, but it's a tweak, that may or may not be useful. I'm thinking probably not.

The reason those floppy handles on the pure inflatable wings don't work well is that they don't allow any precision in managing the angle of attack. I kept dipping the wingtip which flips the wing upside down. Anything that gave more precise control, or better yet, that would let you hold the kite in a way that automatically positioned the tips up, would help. Like a boom for instance.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2019, 11:05:39 AM »
What we have now is a kite with the steering lines both attached to the center strut.  We have pitch and yaw covered but left roll to fend for itself.  :)

I picture this more to help with light air where the wings are "swimming" or rolling with less wind support.  Helping to keep that tip up until airflow takes over and during pumping.  You see the wings controlling the riders a a lot in video.  You can try mine and see if it's useful :).  The thing that attracted me to the SPG design is that they offset the struts to allow more belly at the bottom which in turn puts the wing in a natural wing position for initial lift off.  I like the look of that...and the wide mount points for my roll bar. 

This guy opted for the boom aligned on another (single) axis :).

« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 12:12:08 PM by Admin »

Rider

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2019, 12:07:20 PM »
There was a foiler with a wing at the hatch yesterday afternoon. The wind was 15 to 40 with lotís of chop. Letís just say it wasnít pretty 8)

Fishman

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2019, 05:07:32 PM »
Along this line as your roll handle.
Thinking some of these inflatable wider single strut models could benefit from having additional (less floppy) handles on the sides of the struts. Possible offering a dual strut like effect.

Watching the slingwing videos it seem it's being held at the perpendicular part of the handle. Kind of choking up like. Maybe for better control.
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PonoBill

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2019, 06:29:42 PM »
There was a foiler with a wing at the hatch yesterday afternoon. The wind was 15 to 40 with lotís of chop. Letís just say it wasnít pretty 8)

And then there's Rod doing this:


Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Rider

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2019, 07:08:20 PM »
Lookís so simple a cave man could do it.....

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 02:31:31 AM »
Watching the slingwing videos it seem it's being held at the perpendicular part of the handle. Kind of choking up like. Maybe for better control.

Hah!  I had missed that.  It does show a "vertical" position there.  Cool.  It will still be leveraged from a relatively narrow single strut but I could still see that helping a lot.  I was wondering if this was in part why they ended up adding inflatable the trailing edge as well.  I think we will see a lot of running changes and tweaks as this moves along.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 02:41:38 AM by Admin »

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 02:51:43 AM »
There was a foiler with a wing at the hatch yesterday afternoon. The wind was 15 to 40 with lotís of chop. Letís just say it wasnít pretty 8)

I think he looks like he was doing fine.  It is a brand new deal :).  I am sure there were some tricky moments (that wind was pretty punchy).

« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 02:53:54 AM by Admin »

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2019, 02:52:47 AM »

« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 02:55:12 AM by Admin »

ninja tuna

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Re: Roll Handles for WingSurfing
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 04:41:39 AM »
thanks, i see what you are saying now.