Author Topic: Question how long can a foil SUP board be until it is too long ?  (Read 731 times)

Austrian

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hello,

I am new here - I'm from Austria, a country without sea...but some nice lakes.

I'm 53, weight 100 kg, windsurfer since 35 years, kiteboarder since 20 years, kitefoiler since 5 years,
just starting windfoiling, and surfer since 30 years - but - here the question starts:
I get about 50 days of kitefoiling windsurfing a year (together), but only some surfing or wave SUPing days a year (holiday only).
I can get easy waves and do some nice turns on longboards or minimals or on a wave SUP, but I will never be "good" compared
to people to living on the sea.
I have good foil experiences with the kitefoil, can do that pretty much "blind", and this year I want to start wave SUP foiling,
I am pretty sure that the basics won't be to hard for me, but - like described - I never will be very good.

I have a choice of 2 boards - a 230x78cm 130 l self made board and a 10'0" gong longboardstyle.
For pure wave SUP I very much prefer the 10'0" (140 l) as it has very thin rails and a really perfect shape,
I get waves much easyier, and to be honest for me it is better in any way.
The 230x78  has quite thick rails, I don't say that the board is not working, but as it is so short,
it is much harder for me to stand on it and it needs much steeper waves to get gliding.
Only place where the short one is better is small, punchy beachbreak waves, but for this I prefer the surfboard, anyway.

I go to portugal for 3 weeks in July and don't want to take 2 SUPs with me (I already have 4 kites, 2 foils, kite waveboard, surfboard...and I take a flight).

Can anybody tell me if it is total nonsense to learn to SUP foil with the 10'0" ?
It would be easy for me to install the reinforcments and inserts (female thread plugs) in the board, I did that on surfboards and also on the 230 SUP a couple of times.

The 230 has the inserts already, but for normal SUPing I will always think of my 10'0"....

Would be nice if somebody could give me an answer....somebody who understands my special situation...

Best regards

Wolfgang

ps this is my 230 (cork sandwich, now also having a windsurf mast fixing point)
http://surfforum.oase.com/showthread.php?t=146117

this is the gong
(same shape, but older)
https://gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/fr_FR/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box1707/Products/GON9SUPFNFA100

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Question how long can a foil SUP board be until it is too long ?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2019, 05:58:34 AM »
Gong has built several longboard, foilboards. There are videos of it. They promoted it for awhile. Ask them about it.

Austrian

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Re: Question how long can a foil SUP board be until it is too long ?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2019, 08:12:14 AM »
Ask them about it.

I did. They want to sell new stuff....no answer that I could take serious came, knowing this videos...

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: Question how long can a foil SUP board be until it is too long ?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2019, 09:29:01 AM »
I would not have wanted to try to learn to foil in the surf on a 10'x30.5" board. It just seems to me that all that added length just adds to the leverage problems you face in the learning process of leveraging the board to just the right angle to get it to lift off the water, but not so much that you immediately fly it right out of the water with just a tad too much angle...that the difference between the two seems almost negligible in the beginning learning process.

Just for comparison (and yes, everyone's different), I started on a 221x72cm 110 l board...at the time (14 months ago) I weighed 93 kg and was 58 years old. I might have wanted a slightly wider board at the time (74cm), but I never really felt the board was too short...having come from a 235x76cm 119 l Corran SUP which always felt really stable in most all conditions out there (that I almost put boxes in to learn on, but was afraid the construction, age, and condition of the board was taking a big, unwarranted chance in doing so).
Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" & 6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

PonoBill

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Re: Question how long can a foil SUP board be until it is too long ?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2019, 07:13:46 PM »
I was tempted to add a foil box to a longboard, I'm glad I didn't. I started foiling on a converted L41 SimSup that's 8'8" X 31". Because of the boards' design, it was difficult to use--The sweet spot for balance is very small at my weight (6'2", 235#, and old). I switched to a Jimmy Lewis 8'5" Hovercraft which was much easier to stand on, but wasn't easy to get up and flying. I asked Dave Kalama to make me a "big guy with shitty balance" board, and he did. Mr Fugly (as I call it) is 7'2" X 33" and very thick (don't know dimensions), it's very stable and very easy to get up foiling. The length makes it a little hard to swing the board into a turn, but certainly not impossible. I've steadily improved on the board and I'm comfortable on it in nasty conditions. I also have a slight smaller and prettier board I call "little fugly" 6'11" X 30". I'd consider the 7'2" the upper limit for my use as a foil board.

I think the problem with a longboard is how much flat surface you'll have behind the foil when have it mounted in a reasonable place. I'd expect to mount the Tuttle or tracks somewhere around 20 to 25 inches from the tail--maybe further to get the swing weight more balanced. With that long and flattish tail behind the mount, it would be hard to pump the board up onto the foil, the same way the Jimmy Lewis 8'5" Hovercraft was. It might be easier to catch a wave, but it won't be easier to get up on the wing.

In fact, I doubt it would be easier to catch a wave once you get the basics in hand. The easiest way to catch a small wave is to pump onto it. If you can get the board up on the foil, even just a little bit, the reduced drag and the ability of the wing to harvest wave energy accelerates the board into the wave quickly and in control.

If you have the time and interest, I'd make a board similar to your 230 with a bevel right behind the tuttle or plate mount. It can be a flat bevel, perhaps with a step, or a curved bevel, but in either case the idea is to able to change the angle of attack of the foil by pushing down on the tail--basically allowing you to pump a little while the board is still in the water. This is the feature that makes the Kalama and newer Jimmy Lewis boards easier to get up on the foil. You could incorporate something like this into a longboard, but it would be a substantial piece of butchery that would probably leave the board useless for normal surfing.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 07:21:12 PM by PonoBill »
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Cardiff Sweeper

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Re: Question how long can a foil SUP board be until it is too long ?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2019, 09:28:28 PM »
(thread crashing)

Regarding prone foiling:

I bought a 7'0" Foamie and a Foil-Mount adhesive plate.
It could be a fun experiment, or total disaster.
I've not seen any prone foil boards over 6'6" in use around here, and certainly not seen a foam one.
Here's to hoping it will be über stable and fun.  8)

PonoBill

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Re: Question how long can a foil SUP board be until it is too long ?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2019, 08:41:03 AM »
Cool idea. Sam Pae added a tuttle to a wavestorm and rode it for a while. As I recall the Tuttle broke out, but the plate mount might help that. Wavestorms are seriously stout, with multiple plywood stringers.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SanoSlatchSup

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Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" & 6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.