Author Topic: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?  (Read 5853 times)

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2019, 04:24:07 AM »
I have high hopes for the park and play (shuttle free) downwinding side of things.  These things point super high into the wind so getting back upwind for mile long mini circuits will be awesome.  There are some Gorge locations with epic downwinding action and no (easy) kite launches that suck for shuttles.  Those would be great spots for this.

As things progress I imagine we will lose the all luffing downwind thing.  Powered, linked, swell carves will be awesome.  At that point we will be using the gorge swells to the max.   STOKED!
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 04:29:09 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2019, 06:22:44 AM »
As things progress I imagine we will lose the all luffing downwind thing.  Powered, linked, swell carves will be awesome.  At that point we will be using the gorge swells to the max.   STOKED!

Not sure about that. We find the luffing, zero wind power mode the most satisfying part of foiling. Thatís when you truly feel the wave energy. It is as close to real surf foiling you can get, when we canít surf foil due to wind.

Wind powered-up foiling can get just as boring as all other forms of wind sports to those whoíve done it all their lives. Where we still find pleasure in wind powered-up foiling, is going great distances, exploring, and floating over the chop, riding on pillows, as opposed to getting beaten up the old way.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 06:25:38 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Julie_Scheyer

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2019, 07:59:51 AM »
I never got bored going SUP downwind and chasing bumps. My shoulders and back got tired/injured though.  I went out downwinging yesterday and it wasnít as windy as I hoped(could have used the 4m) but with the wing I could pump it and keep flying and gliding.
Duotone Foilwing rider.  Hydrofoil setup for Foilwings: Fanatic 1500 or 2000sqcm front wings, 80cm fuselage, 90cm Mast & Fanatic 5ft 68L Sky Solbach proto board.  SUP: SIC Bullet 16ft, Naish Mana 8í6Ē, Fanatic 6í3Ē wave SUP hydrofoil. Qb paddles

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2019, 08:12:43 AM »
Quote
Not sure about that. We find the luffing, zero wind power mode the most satisfying part of foiling. Thatís when you truly feel the wave energy. It is as close to real surf foiling you can get, when we canít surf foil due to wind.
Wind powered-up foiling can get just as boring as all other forms of wind sports to those whoíve done it all their lives. Where we still find pleasure in wind powered-up foiling, is going great distances, exploring, and floating over the chop, riding on pillows, as opposed to getting beaten up the old way.

I can't imagine it won't progress past that quickly.  Watching the windsurf foilers here now they are in the mix with the kitefoilers and the standard kiters and windsurfers.  They are powering through killer turns, carving on the swell 360's, doing most of the big aerial movess, etc.  They have come a long way from the big board, uphaul style foil cruising.  Right now the Wingsurfers are pretty much straight lining it downwind.  Don't get me wrong, that is awesome for something that is brand new.  I'll still have to learn to foil before I can get there :)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 08:15:28 AM by Admin »

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2019, 06:06:38 AM »
Here is a really nicely produced video with a lot of drone footage and a number of sessions.  The guy's stoke is evident.  There a a few nice clips of him really working to get foiling.


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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2019, 04:58:42 AM »
Here is a really beautiful low wind video from Gong. 


PonoBill

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2019, 07:21:42 AM »
Wow, assuming those guys are about 6' tall, those Gong wings measure out at more than 6 meters, almost seven. I want a big wing, dammit. My 3M was a bad joke, the 4M is close, but the only time I get enough wind to get up easily is when the swell is nuts and the wind is gusty. I'm getting there, but I can tell absolutely that 5 and 6M are going to be my goto wings.

I'd much rather have a smaller foil and a bigger wing than the other way around. The M280 GoFoil wing is super draggy, so I need a really hard push to shove it to lift-off speed, and generally, I need to pump both wing and foil as hard as I can--which isn't all that effective since the 280 feels like I'm pumping in peanut butter. Then as soon as it comes up that big push is WAY too much and I need to get the wing to neutral while I'm still unstable. I'll get there, I'm making progress every day that there's wind, but the less than ideal gear sizes makes it much harder. I'd try another manufacturer's wing, but I'm really sold on the Duotone design. It feels more controllable to me, with more power for a given size than the others I've tried.

The Axis foil is a better compromise in many ways, there's much less drag and it comes up with less drama than the M280, but the 1080 Axis wing more like the M200 in its lift characteristics, so it takes a lot of speed to get my ass up and flying. At my size, it isn't a silver bullet. I only have a 90CM mast for it, which is great in the swell if I get reasonably high, but the river has a lot of weed in it this time of year, and hitting a patch of weed at speed is a remarkable experience.

My theoretical solution, which I dreamed up for downwind foiling, but would be fine for wing foiling, is to build my own foil wings to suit my size, aiming for the highest lift/drag ratio in a grande size. It's the reason I bought an Axis setup to begin with--the attachment method makes it feasible. But my current obsession with wing foiling means I'm spending very little time at the shop. It's a goofy situation.

The positive outcomes of having a wing that's too small for me is that I'm learning to sail the thing fairly well, and I am highly motivated to lose weight. Unfortunately losing weight is a long term solution and I want to fly NOW. I did a long set of downwind reaches two days ago that felt really good. With the relatively small angle I was jibing through I could easily try out ways of riding heel first or switchfoot. Now if I could just do that up on the foil.

Yesterday the wind was light everywhere, but it was extremely steady around noon, and most of the places I looked at had minimal swell. It would have been an awesome day for a big wing, but as it was, it was simply no go.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 07:39:17 AM by PonoBill »
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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2019, 08:10:09 AM »
I doubt that a bigger wing would have helped yesterday.  Gusty 3-7 seems to be below the fun threshold for the wing.  Even if you could fly the foil, the wing won't provide any lift.  Holding the surf wing aloft in sub flight conditions is exhausting.  Maybe some gear tweaking could extend the range, but for now I'm pegging my fun conditions wind range at 10-30.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:04:24 AM by Chan »

PonoBill

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2019, 08:41:34 AM »
Yeah, yesterday sucked. Temira blew it, and so did iWindsurf. There was a little more out east, but not enough to keep me driving. The forecast is good for noon on today. Gorge Champs is going to run today, I'd rather wing foil, so I'm bailing.

Oh, and it's a 1020 Axis wing.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:01:51 AM by PonoBill »
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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2019, 09:38:38 AM »
Wow, assuming those guys are about 6' tall, those Gong wings measure out at more than 6 meters, almost seven. I want a big wing, dammit. My 3M was a bad joke, the 4M is close, but the only time I get enough wind to get up easily is when the swell is nuts and the wind is gusty. I'm getting there, but I can tell absolutely that 5 and 6M are going to be my goto wings.

I'd much rather have a smaller foil and a bigger wing than the other way around. The M280 GoFoil wing is super draggy, so I need a really hard push to shove it to lift-off speed, and generally, I need to pump both wing and foil as hard as I can--which isn't all that effective since the 280 feels like I'm pumping in peanut butter. Then as soon as it comes up that big push is WAY too much and I need to get the wing to neutral while I'm still unstable. I'll get there, I'm making progress every day that there's wind, but the less than ideal gear sizes makes it much harder. I'd try another manufacturer's wing, but I'm really sold on the Duotone design. It feels more controllable to me, with more power for a given size than the others I've tried.

The Axis foil is a better compromise in many ways, there's much less drag and it comes up with less drama than the M280, but the 1080 Axis wing more like the M200 in its lift characteristics, so it takes a lot of speed to get my ass up and flying. At my size, it isn't a silver bullet. I only have a 90CM mast for it, which is great in the swell if I get reasonably high, but the river has a lot of weed in it this time of year, and hitting a patch of weed at speed is a remarkable experience.

My theoretical solution, which I dreamed up for downwind foiling, but would be fine for wing foiling, is to build my own foil wings to suit my size, aiming for the highest lift/drag ratio in a grande size. It's the reason I bought an Axis setup to begin with--the attachment method makes it feasible. But my current obsession with wing foiling means I'm spending very little time at the shop. It's a goofy situation.

The positive outcomes of having a wing that's too small for me is that I'm learning to sail the thing fairly well, and I am highly motivated to lose weight. Unfortunately losing weight is a long term solution and I want to fly NOW. I did a long set of downwind reaches two days ago that felt really good. With the relatively small angle I was jibing through I could easily try out ways of riding heel first or switchfoot. Now if I could just do that up on the foil.

Yesterday the wind was light everywhere, but it was extremely steady around noon, and most of the places I looked at had minimal swell. It would have been an awesome day for a big wing, but as it was, it was simply no go.

I am going to try the Iwa wing again today all the way forward in the track.  I reread the info on the GoFoil site https://gofoil.com/wings/ and it might explain some of the all at once lift we are noticing.  Lets see how that goes.

PS:  for the video above I measured the length of the number "7" printed on the wing, multiplied by 0 and then added 7 to determine that it was a 7 meter.  I used a similar equation to calculate that in some scenes they were using a 5 :).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:42:38 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2019, 09:50:48 AM »
Yeah, yeah. I'm good at math, not so good at paying attention to detail.

I note the GoFoil site mentions weights up to 210. Fat boyz need not apply. Obviously, they work fine at higher weights, there are some dudes who make me look little ripping it up on GoFoils.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 10:00:44 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2019, 09:52:32 AM »
Bill, you and Big Mike should be pen pals. He keeps me in the loop. He is always testing the latest big boy wings. GL-225 has more lift than Signature 250. GL-240 he thinks will be ideal for him.

PonoBill

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2019, 10:03:30 AM »
Is that the new GoFoil wing? If so I've been offered a chance to try it. I hate to do that, I'm hard on equipment so I don't like to use other peoples stuff--especially when it's made of unobtainium, but I can make an exception.
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2019, 12:06:14 PM »
Yes. Big Mike says the GL GoFoil wings work great. He has a GL-240 coming from China. They feel limitless when pushing them fast, towing, kiting, etc. Of course heís in constant search for pump monkey foils that work at his weight. The Signature 250 feels like zero drag, but still not enough lift for him to pump back out.  He tries everything. Armstrong, Axis, GoFoil is still king at his weight.

I plan to get some GLs when they are easier to get. Iím hopeful they are the perfect wing surfer foils. The bonus will be paddle SUP use.

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Re: Wingsurf Foiling - How low a Windspeed is possible?
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2019, 12:51:48 PM »
I plan to get some GLs when they are easier to get. Iím hopeful they are the perfect wing surfer foils. The bonus will be paddle SUP use.


Dwight, I like your plan, have some similar in mind.
In addition, I like to know with which smallest surface front wings  the most speed with the HandWings are feasible.

 


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