Author Topic: Any info on new GoFoil Wings  (Read 4275 times)

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2019, 10:13:41 AM »
Looks to me like he hits the water on nearly every turn? To backup what pono says i have attached flow woolies to my foil tip when lookng at putting tip fences on - during a tight turn the inside wing completely stalls with flow heading not just 90 degrees up the wing toward the fuselage but nearly backward flow over the wing if the turn is super sharp. Add to that the natural poor stall characteristics of a high aspect wing and viola.. we can see the results

PonoBill

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2019, 10:22:33 AM »
I like the idea of anhedral starting from the root to get the bulk of the wing under water in a turn when it's easy to lift a long, high aspect wing tip out of the water. Reversing the anhedral to a dihedral section starting about half way to the tip should add some lateral stability and add a little lift as the wing curves up to flat. Then a relatively sharp curve to anhedral tip both adds some rudder action and might reduce the tip vortex. I've drawn this wing a dozen times, it just seems to have all the stuff I want. Too bad it only exists in my pointy head. I won't be easy to make with a CNC router because of all the Z-axis changes. It's going to have to start off as a pretty thick chunk of plywood, though not terribly so since the changes are relatively subtle--less Z-axis change than an M200 wing.

Container--I do most of my modelling in my head, nice to see someone actually measuring stuff. I built a "water tunnel" (like a wind tunnel, only water) for paddle testing a bunch of years ago. I'd resurrect it for this design effort but it's way too small to do anything useful with wings. Perhaps my natural water tunnel--a short bit of the Hood River that runs fairly straight and has stable bank access--can be pressed into service. I've done a lot of fin testing there over the years and I've only fallen in twice.

And yes, the inside wing in the video is crapping out on every hard turn. The guy foils like Junya--ignoring the fact that his foil just quit working and driving right through it. Great skill, but I'd like the foil to do most of the work.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 10:31:41 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUPeter

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2019, 10:57:13 AM »
Really do not know what you guys are looking at but most of his turns are done with the board high and level.  Only a few turns show the board diving to the surface.  I think this is mostly due to pitch control and not necessarily loss of lift. 

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2019, 11:04:03 AM »
Thats it supeter, a good foiler like him would never touch down in a turn. Stalling the wing means a large increase in drag which is why he looks to suddenly pitch down in a turn. It would be super interesting if someone attachsd woolies to one of these and do some savage carves behind a boat

SUPeter

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2019, 11:15:13 AM »
With a wing that wide and flat, I would imagine purposefully pitching the wing down is necessary just to keep the wing tips from breaching.  Unless of course, you are riding an extremely long mast.  That wing looks like a lot of fun, no matter what.  As I spend more time on mine, maybe Ill learn more and apply that to my next wing.

PonoBill

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2019, 02:25:43 PM »
Really do not know what you guys are looking at but most of his turns are done with the board high and level.  Only a few turns show the board diving to the surface.  I think this is mostly due to pitch control and not necessarily loss of lift.

Watch the video full screen and look at the mast and board during each hard turn. He's overcoming the loss of lift because he's really good and moving fast, but in a turn across the face with the resultant acceleration most wings would lift the the foil and the rider would have to press down to maintain control. His inside wing is losing a lot of lift making the board drop and lean into the wave. It's fine, the wing is working very well, doing what it's supposed to do, but turning it tightly is going to make it fall to the inside of the turn. Someone with my skill level would be falling into the wave every time. I'm going to have to learn to do that. None of the wings I plan to use to make it feasible for a fat geezer to downwind are going to turn quickly, and if they do, the inside wing is going to quit working. It's just how aero works. You won't see a sailplane doing tight turns without a lot of banking. Turn a sailplane tightly with the rudder (never done, except by experts to demonstrate spins and hopefully spin recovery) and it will spin, because the inside wing loses lift and stalls while the outside wing retains lift. Flat wing two-channel R/C gliders used be able to do banked turns without ailerons because the pilots knew that kicking the rudder drops the inside wing and the turn can be completed with the elevator. If we had elevators we could do that too, instead those of us will minimal talent with creep through turns with long high aspect wings, to keep them from rolling us off.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2019, 06:55:13 PM »
Don't know (nor really care) much about all the technicals or nut & bolts of what/why makes what fly however...all I really know is that this...

... is freakin' incredible! :o 8) :)
Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" & 6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

settlands

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2019, 06:14:10 AM »
this thread has come at a good time for me... I got the unifoil 210 (albatross 210) about a week ago a and have been completely obsessed with it since.  I've now used it for 4 good long sessions and what is being discussed hadnt even ocurred to me.  To be honest it pumps sooooo good that for the first session I couldnt have given a monkeys how it turns.  Im 70kg on a 6'0x26 custom foil board and went from breathlessly connecting one '2 for 1' a session on a Naish large to instantly doing '3 for 1s' and pumping huge distances effortlessly.

As said, I didnt notice it but there must be some truth in what ponobill is saying... he explains it in such a logical way that makes such sense that it must be true.  The question is to what degree does it matter.   Soooo... after reading this yesterday I thought I would make a conscious effort on turns today.  At (very) slow speeds the lift in a turn is less than traditional foil so you just anticipate it by getting higher on the mast and get ready to pump out of it.  However, at normal or high speed things get better.... rather than have to be heavy on the front foot to counter the lift created the feeling is more natural to surfing with balance pressure between both feet or a bit of pressure on the back foot mid way through the turn if you're getting lower on the mast.  I  prefer the feeling/technique... seems more natural. 

Its a tiny bit less lively and reactive than a naish large in short/sharp direction changes but it does do a really nice turn. Besides thats comparing apples and oranges... I have the 175 (stealth) for turns.  I think if I got braver and put in more effort(like derek in the vids) it would turn even sharper and I'm finding it more reactive with each session.

Anyway... like I said, you will not be thinking about turns for a good long while after you get one of these.  You'll just be laughing about how far and effortless you can pump.  I dont even need to exit a wave with speed any more... I can increase up to pumping speed/height from slow and practically on the waters surface.  All ive ever been able to do is maintain the speed I had.  Sometimes in chop i hit the water but it doesnt matter... just pump back up high on the mast.  I barely use the paddle either.

On the mast length... I was on a 70 cm mast on the Naish and said Id never go longer.  I had a choice of 75 or 65 but went 75cm because, due to the wing being flat the total depth is less than with the curved naish.  I think these wings definitely want a longer mast because whilst they can turn with the tip out, I dont think you'd necessarily want to do it all the time involuntarily.

I think if you're on a prone board absolutely ripping turns and connecting waves effortlessly then you dont necessarily need one.  However, if you're on a sup and have connected the odd wave and really want to get the pumping/connecting waves thing out your system then definitely have a look at the unifoil/signature/gofoil wings. 

oh one last thing... at just under 70kg and having never used anything bigger than a naish large I was a bit worried about being able to handle the amount of lift.  However, this is not like a big traditional wing I think... there is no 'bucking' lift, it's all very prrogressive and gradual due to the efficiency.  it doesnt stray much from the angle you set it at.

settlands

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2019, 07:07:47 AM »
here's the same guy on the same wing on a smaller day



absolutely ripping as usual.  No mid turn touchdowns that i can see.

PonoBill

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2019, 07:28:54 AM »
That is such a cool wing, it's the inspiration for my downwind ambitions. A lot of the prone surfers on Maui are using it, and while they are total pump monkeys, a lot of the time they don't seem to do much, just fly along.

Who IS that guy, he's really good. I didn't see anything odd at all in his turning in the second video except I can't believe he gets away with overfoiling that long wing. In that last wave his wingtip is breaching and the whole front wing looks to be sucking air.  Faceplant for sure if that was me. That wing looks quite a bit longer than the wings Alex was playing with this winter. Everyone who tried them wanted to keep them.

I got the 90 cm Axis mast for just that reason, to give me more room to swing the tip around if I wind up with some ridiculously long wing. It's an intimidating size, I'm picturing myself carrying this across the rip-rap in the Columbia and it ain't a pretty mental picture.

I've yet to get this thing wet, I have a few more modification to do before I'm ready--like boring out the Tuttle holes to suit 8mm bolts and getting some appropriate length bolts--the only long 8mm stainless bolts I have are countersink heads. But today is probably the day.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 07:47:42 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

steamroller

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2019, 09:21:54 AM »
THAT'S the derek Hamasaki videos

supfoo

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2019, 07:41:25 PM »
Anyone know if Go Foil is working on an inflatable wing surfer?

PonoBill

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2019, 07:57:15 PM »
YES! It's going to bolt right on to my aluminum foil board.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supunk

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2019, 01:58:40 AM »
Hi settlands. Looks like you rate the Uni-Foil. I am thinking of pulling the plug and getting one primarily for surf suping. Sounds like you would recommend the 210? I have a Gong L/XXL and a Neil Pryde Glide large. The 210 sounds like a lot of fun.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 02:01:50 AM by supunk »

DailyBread Surf Photo

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Re: Any info on new GoFoil Wings
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2019, 07:55:05 AM »


I've had one for a few weeks, and also rode some of the proto's when Alex was dialing them in.  I was exclusively on my Iwa before and can tell you the pump out is noticeably easier.  You go farther using alittle less energy pumping than what I was using with the Iwa.

When turning, you roll it then you can tighten the arc and lay into it.  The Iwa you can lay into it from the beginning of your turn.  I didn't find it to lose lift nor speed through the turn at all.  It excellerated down hill like a wing should.

I can't advise on which size you should get as I ride a small 4'10 prone board and my specs don't really transfer to SUP.  But I'm riding the medium wing (i think) and a Iwa tail.

 


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