Author Topic: Dynamics of catching a wave  (Read 3654 times)

Cardiff Sweeper

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2019, 09:53:50 PM »
Chiming in:

My regular SUP is 7'4"x25" @84L, I weigh 165lbs.
Because it's kinda narrow, I prefer to always paddle in a surf stance..then widen it a bit just before taking off on a wave.  I call it ditch-digging paddling.  Hunched over, using my upper body weight to paddle furiously.

Now that I'm on a SUP foil board (6'10"x28") that has foot straps, I've paddled around with my feet in them, though it's really an uncomfortably wide stance.  But it assures that my feet are exactly where they need to be when up and flying.
So, I mainly use just the front foot strap, then slide my rear foot back over the mast just before stroking into a wave.

The less I need to move my stance (foot position), the quicker everything flows for me.

(Now to work on my grammar and sentence forming)  ::)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 09:59:11 PM by Cardiff Sweeper »

SUPdad

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2019, 01:04:08 AM »
Thanks, guys!  So Iíve been making some slow progress. I moved the foil back so Iím able to sort of control the altitude, or at least not get thrown off backwards.;D Iíve managed to catch a handful of waves and usually point myself in the direction I want to go when paddling for the wave. Then try to stay low and not fall off.

The problem I seem to have now is Iíll go for a bit but then fall off the side...either side, it seems, Iím not too picky. ;D Without the board on the water, it feels like thereís nothing to balance against...if that makes any sense. Iím afraid to try and fight it when I feel myself leaning because I donít want to fall and land on the foil. Iíve been told to keep shoulders squared off and I think Iím doing that but itís entirely possible that Iím not. I am fairly confident Iím not turning the foil, it just seems I start to lean off to the side and eventually fall. Any pointers on how to balance side to side better?  A guy I was talking to in the water was saying it will come as your core muscles build up, or something like that. Thatís probably true but doesnít make much sense to me now.  ;D

PonoBill

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2019, 11:11:39 AM »
Really you don't balance side to side--the foil is fairly stable side-to-side, your job is to not screw that up. Look at the videos of people doing dock starts. They push the foilboard hard, let it go, and jump onto it. The board and foil coasts along nicely with no one on it. You're probably doing what Cardif was--and everyone who is a surfer does--leaning one way or the other. At least partly because they're in a sort of surf stance. You can't put your feet to either side of the center line--they have to be ON the centerline. Whichever side you lean towards gets more lift, which tips the wing in the opposite direction. If you're tipping to the side you need to concentrate on rotating forward from your hips and bending your knees not your back. weight your front foot by moving your hips forward. Your head is a heavy weight on the end of a stick. If you're leaning forward and you look to the side you're moving the weight to that side. Works OK (sort of) for surfing since the board will turn the way you're looking, doesn't work at all for foiling since the foil and board will tip to the opposite site.

Don't change anything about bailing before everything goes bad. When you/re in this stage of screwing up the tendency of the foil to not fall to either side, if you try to save it you'll tip faster and harder, which means you'll fall onto the foil. Don't do that. Bail off the back. Easy for me to say, my standard exit these days is a faceplant, which is only marginally batter than jackknifing onto the foil, but I'm getting very good at it.

I think Beasho is right about having footstraps front and back helping a lot initially. If people can get both feet into the straps before the foil starts to fly they automatically get past the point of trying to stabilize a board that is already stable. Unfortunately a lot of people struggle with the footstraps even if they spent half their life with their feet in windsurfer straps. Like me for instance. If I fumble getting my front foot in the strap before I catch the wave I get more than just a little panicky. The voice in my head says "you are definitely gonna crash" and I usually do. But the back strap has just been a pain in the ass for me. I know I'd have an easier time of turning if I got into the strap and got used to it, but mostly I wind up standing on it.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

bigmtn

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2019, 12:48:11 PM »
If I fall to the side it's usually because I tried to turn the board before I get up on the foil. If I get up on foil then turn, usually works much better. The other reason I fall to the side is because I'm not going fast enough. Like riding a bike, the slower you go the easier to tip over.

JEG

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2019, 02:46:46 PM »
my problem now is turning and how do you turn the foil?

SUPdad

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2019, 03:59:53 PM »
Iíve given it a little thought and I think the reason I tip over to the side is because Iíve been trying to stand in surf stance like Sam demonstrates in those videos...front foot kind of pointing towards the nose and back foot perpendicular to the board. On dry land, I find it a little odd to stand like that and can see how it can be tippy side to side. Especially because Iíve been trying to make a conscious effort not to put heel/toe pressure on my back foot.

PonoBill

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2019, 08:31:31 AM »
my problem now is turning and how do you turn the foil?

I still kind of suck at turning, but I know what works best for me so far--I turn with my hips and my back foot, basically twisting the board by shoving my back foot around. As the turn starts, the wing banks a little and I just follow the wing. To end or reverse the turn I shove my foot the other way, using my hips again. It's a weird feeling, but it's the most controllable turn for me. I can use it to curve along the top of a wave, or initiate a cutback.

The tighter turns take commitment, I can pull off a cutback if I start it from slightly behind the top of the wave so I have enough time to get the lift under control before the board starts down and across the face, or if I just manage to commit to the turn sufficiently. I still have a tough time pulling out of quick cutbacks. I think I'm freezing in place, having spent a lot of time going over the handlebars when I overfoil during cutbacks, but I saw some evidence of of the correct moves and position getting added to muscle memory since I seem to have time to think about what comes next now. 
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Beasho

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2019, 09:34:13 AM »
my problem now is turning and how do you turn the foil?

I still kind of suck at turning, but I know what works best for me so far--I turn with my hips and my back foot, basically twisting the board by shoving my back foot around. . . . .

Pono - Approximately how many sessions do you have on the foil?  I am going to guess 75++

I am asking because the people who are turning well on foils have 100's of sessions.  Turning on a foil, and looking good, is similar to pulling off a good bottom turn on a surfboard.  It require 100's of sessions to get good.

Similar to windsurfing and doing high speed jibes.  When I lived in the East Coast I was lucky to get 25 windsurfing sessions a year.  I was in awe of the guys in magazines Robby Naish, Maui Meyer, Cort Larned then later Sean Ordonez, the Pritchards . . . I only later learned that these guys had 100's of sessions EVERY YEAR.  OMG! 

Advice can speed things along but this stuff takes time on the water. 

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2019, 09:55:59 AM »
my problem now is turning and how do you turn the foil?
Only through trial and many errors have I found that turning a foil is all about commitment. I only started getting proficient at it when I decided to just "go for it" and try to turn it aggressively...and was pleasantly surprised that the harder you turn it (off the nose...don't try to back foot, surf turn it) the easier it was to be able to stay up and fly it back out of the turn. Rather than baby my way into the turn then either lose too much speed to fly it out, or over foil it out of the turn trying to get it back up, and sail right out of it onto my back.  :o

Being aggressive with the turn allows you to fly high(er) into it, and then turn with both feet (note: I'm on an Anglefoil so it's a tad different than a straight mast somewhat), nose the board slightly down to account for the added speed I'll gain in the turn, and then let the foil/wave to the rest as it will continue to fly me out the other way, and it's then all about controlling the speed, and height of the foil/board back out from there.

https://youtu.be/akmQ7NRl0QU?t=12   ;) ;D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 10:00:22 AM by SanoSlatchSup »
Me: 6'1"/200...6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

JEG

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2019, 03:03:45 PM »
wish I have more time on the water as clearly some of these ppl do and liking the skills that they produced  8)

Evan Lloyd

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Re: Dynamics of catching a wave
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2019, 12:24:32 PM »
I live in AZ.  I know all about it. 

wish I have more time on the water as clearly some of these ppl do and liking the skills that they produced  8)