Author Topic: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup  (Read 1453 times)

FloridaWindSUP

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Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« on: April 10, 2019, 04:13:09 AM »
I've recently been playing with a Slingshot Hoverglide Fwind 2019 setup on my windsurf and really enjoying it. I think the foil is usuable for surf sup, too, though I might need a larger front wing (Infinity 84 instead of the Infinity 76 that I have).

What I would actually be most interested in doing though would be foil sup downwinding. I think I would need a different board for that because the shape of my windsurf is all wrong for paddling and catching waves (230 x 100 cm / 7'6 x 39" wide formula race board with the finbox all the way at the tail). Before I look at a new board purchase, I want to get some perspectives on if downwind foiling actually works for amateurs in real world conditions.

How much wind and what size bumps do you need to get up and stay up on the foil for a reasonable amount of time? Do you need, like, 25 knot Gorge / Maui conditions or can it work in 10-15 knots with less than waist high bumps?
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JimK

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 07:11:25 AM »
The front wing size would be determined by ability and size But I'm betting you'll need the 84 Infinity.I found I also needed the bigger back wing but I'm a beginner in foiling and rather large guy/
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nalu-sup

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 08:14:53 AM »
I would also suggest checking out some of the videos from Robert Stehlik at Blue Planet Surf, and then email him with some of your questions. I know that Robert has spent the past two years really focusing on exploring surf foiling, and downwind foiling. Oahu has somewhat mellower winds than Maui or the Gorge, so that might give him some perspective on your questions.
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frenchfoiler

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2019, 08:33:40 AM »
I've recently been playing with a Slingshot Hoverglide Fwind 2019 setup on my windsurf and really enjoying it. I think the foil is usuable for surf sup, too, though I might need a larger front wing (Infinity 84 instead of the Infinity 76 that I have).

What I would actually be most interested in doing though would be foil sup downwinding. I think I would need a different board for that because the shape of my windsurf is all wrong for paddling and catching waves (230 x 100 cm / 7'6 x 39" wide formula race board with the finbox all the way at the tail). Before I look at a new board purchase, I want to get some perspectives on if downwind foiling actually works for amateurs in real world conditions.

How much wind and what size bumps do you need to get up and stay up on the foil for a reasonable amount of time? Do you need, like, 25 knot Gorge / Maui conditions or can it work in 10-15 knots with less than waist high bumps?

You definetly need the biggest wing you can get same size as M280 and a board dedicated (as short as possible but stable, light and with inserts for front foot strap). Dw foiling can get very furstrating when you start. You need strong wind (20/25nd at least) and easy run (short run first).

I would say, first you need to try to paddle upwind and go dw, ride small waves and get used to pumping both using your paddle and without.
I don't know your background, you don't read and connect the swell as you would do on a sup race board, you need to re learn how to ride open ocean swell.

But when you finally get it, it is really good. Living in southern California I don't get the chance to go that often but I'm moving back to France soon (north west of France which is really good for dw) and I'm really looking forward to it because I know I'm gonna be able to do lots of foil dw.



PonoBill

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2019, 10:29:56 AM »
Very challenging, I'm a failure at it so far, but I'm determined to make it work. One of my friends seems to have all the right elements--excellent foiler, light and short, the right equipment, and many years of downwind experience on Maui, and he's frustrated with it. So you can expect to have to work at it. I think it's completely hopeless with the wrong equipment unless your initials are Kai Lenny, or maybe Dave Kalama at the heavier end of the spectrum. Right equipment means a light board that's short enough to turn and pump well, but stable enough to let you get going without focusing too much on staying on the board. A front footstrap makes it easier though some of the prone foilers can downwind without them if they get towed into waves.

Stability is important because there are lots of balls in the air doing foiling of any kind, the less you have distracting you, the more likely you are to be successful.

I've been using the GoFoil 280, and I've been able (with great effort) to get it up on a bump, but once I get up I'm so exhausted that my mind goes blank and I just stand there. Or perhaps I just don't have any more pumps in my inventory. I've seen the difference between efficient wings and easy wings like the 280, and it's that you don't need to pump the efficient wings so much. Here on Maui, Alex is experimenting with higher aspect wings that work better for downwinding. Some of the more advanced foilers are using high aspect wings to surf and are getting ridiculously long rides with minimal pumping. I'm not familiar with the infinity wings, but if I were going to invest in downwind gear I'd be looking at high aspect, big wings.

I plan on making my own wings this summer in the gorge. Lots of them. I'm going to CNC route them out of plywood and stiffen them with a little carbon. I'll be switching to a mast system that lets me swap them out easily. I think we're a long way from done with designing the best wing for DW, especially for big geezers like me.

You also need a lot of wind in the right direction. The gorge is quite good since the wave faces stand up better than anywhere else I've been with the wind against the current. The energy isn't as great as it is in places with longer fetch, but it's reliable and constant. And 40mph winds make everything easier.

You need to be able to read the swell and see where the energy is going. Regular downwinding teaches you this, but it takes time to learn. If you can't see where the wave energy is going you'll have very short rides.
 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 10:34:24 AM by PonoBill »
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supfoo

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 11:43:27 AM »
What part of FL do you live in?
Im here in Naples, tried to do a DW on 14mph South day, Maliko 280 on a really small board. I dont think its possible until the wind gets going 20 mph and at that point the the current is going to push the wing so you have no control over it.
If your on the Gulf side of FL I'd say not happening.

gzasinets

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 02:11:40 PM »
What part of FL do you live in?
Im here in Naples, tried to do a DW on 14mph South day, Maliko 280 on a really small board. I dont think its possible until the wind gets going 20 mph and at that point the the current is going to push the wing so you have no control over it.
If your on the Gulf side of FL I'd say not happening.

Not quite dw but
Also from the info available dw foiling is somewhat challenging and one should not expect to make it work within the first dozen tries. What concerns SwFL i think best bet is NW winds as it provides better bumps than S wind direction. My 2 cents.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 02:16:47 PM by gzasinets »
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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 06:41:07 PM »
Ok, thank you all, this is helpful. I've been thinking about getting a more sup / surf oriented board to mount the foil on and maybe try the upwind / downwind / gentle surf thing without the sail. If I had unlimited funds I might try it on this wind-sup board. http://exocet-original.com/en/windsup-ride-8-11.php
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808sup

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2019, 08:32:16 PM »
Maybe this will work for some of you who are having difficulties sup foiling.Not my thing though. I would rather use a standard kite setup or just windsurf.

supfoo

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 07:08:48 PM »
Sign me up for one of those! I wonder what the wind parameters are ? Launch date?

PonoBill

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 10:12:38 PM »
Maybe this will work for some of you who are having difficulties sup foiling.Not my thing though. I would rather use a standard kite setup or just windsurf.

Then again, you probably haven't tried one.
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JEG

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2019, 02:34:43 AM »
foil and kite sail, two of the things I need to learn  :)

supfoo

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Re: Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2019, 04:30:41 PM »
Maybe this will work for some of you who are having difficulties sup foiling.Not my thing though. I would rather use a standard kite setup or just windsurf.

Then again, you probably haven't tried one.

Bill, have you tried one?