Author Topic: Need Foil Help!  (Read 1021 times)

supfoo

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Need Foil Help!
« on: April 02, 2019, 06:19:09 PM »
 Hello, I have been struggling with my SUP foil for about a year now and was wondering if someone can answer one big question. How the hell do you know what wave is good enough to try & get on??  Every time I go to catch a wave it will do one of 2 things, be loaded with power or it goes right under me. Most of the time its the latter. >:(
I was out last week on nice size wind swell & couldn't catch one. Plus the current had my wing doing crazy things while I was trying to line myself up.
I feel frustrated not being able to figure this out by now. Even on clean days with good waves I can only catch a small percentage.  Thoughts?

Riding a Go Foil Maliko 200 W/Naish Hover 120 7-6" in SWFL garbage waves. 215lbs

Evan Lloyd

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 07:58:30 PM »
Could be a number of issues like foot placement, wave selection etc. Do you have any video or photos of you surfing so the folks on here can see what you’re doing and give you some feedback?

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 10:32:33 PM »
Your foil could possibly be too far back...for a 7'6" board a decent starting point would be setting the back edge of your mast approx. 19-1/4" from the tail of your board. Your rear foot should then start pretty close to being on top of center of the mast or slightly forward. If you're not running one, I'd recommend a front foot strap, with the center of it approx. 27-28" ahead of the front of your mast.

From there, if you're still having trouble flying, move the foil forward 1/2" at a time until you're able to drop in, and fly. If you find yourself flying out of the wave to quickly, move the foil back 1/2" at a time, until you're able to control the lift. Good luck, stay positive, and have fun.
Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" & 6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

PonoBill

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 10:52:03 PM »
Try taking off in fresh whitewater--probably the easiest way to get up at first. Stay low and brace with the paddle because it will be turbulent at first, but as soon as you're rolling you can pop up and get ahead of the foam.
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supunk

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2019, 01:00:04 AM »
Hi Supfoo
I have recently got a Naish Hover 120 which I use with with a Gong foil (80cm and 100cm wings). I run with a front foot strap which I have my foot in permanently whilst paddling and flying. I paddle in a narrow surf stance. I have been slowly dialling in foot positioning over the last few weeks and currently run with the mast top plate just under a cm from the front of the twin box track. I have been getting good take offs and flights in this position. I still need some power in the wave but have been managing to catch knee high plus waves with the big wing. I still find that I take off on the wave and engage the foil once up and riding. On bigger waves I often use the whitewater to get up and going. I have been foiling for around 12 months (hard for the last 6 months). The Naish has been a good improvement on my previous board a 7'10 Takuma

frenchfoiler

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 10:51:43 AM »
Hello, I have been struggling with my SUP foil for about a year now and was wondering if someone can answer one big question. How the hell do you know what wave is good enough to try & get on??  Every time I go to catch a wave it will do one of 2 things, be loaded with power or it goes right under me. Most of the time its the latter. >:(
I was out last week on nice size wind swell & couldn't catch one. Plus the current had my wing doing crazy things while I was trying to line myself up.
I feel frustrated not being able to figure this out by now. Even on clean days with good waves I can only catch a small percentage.  Thoughts?

Riding a Go Foil Maliko 200 W/Naish Hover 120 7-6" in SWFL garbage waves. 215lbs



You need to practise on small mushy waves.
Are you able at least to catch the wave ? If not, then you need to work on paddling technique, remember that sup foiling is a different technique than sup for catching wave. You need to paddle surf stance, using the blade angle to drive your board to go straight and put lots of power into your strokes. You have less inertia with the foil so paddling techique is really important.

There are two ways to fly on the foil.
First is the speed you get with the wave by taking off on a wave with enought power, but it is hard for a beginner to control this lift.
Second which I recommand as it is safer and better to learn is to use less speed offered by the wave but adding technique into it to make the foil going up. You need to use your body weight, while paddling try to unweight as much as you can.


Surfside

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 11:42:40 AM »
supfoo, have you seen this video? Made a big difference for me. Good luck!


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JEG

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2019, 01:19:06 PM »
supfoo, how long have been paddling and do you sup surf?

supfoo

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2019, 05:21:18 PM »
Thanks for all the input! To answer some of the questions, yes I SUP surf and pretty much I feel like the only waves I can catch to foil are the same ones I would go after on the SUP.
I was hoping to catch the same waves you see in the You Tube vids! As we have way more of those.
I do not have the foil too far back as I keep it one centimeter from the front of the track, good call supunk! I feel like this is the best spot for me also.
I guess I was wanting to hear people say you cant catch them all or your board needs more volume. Sounds like I should try a front foot strap.
I'm not tech savy but will look to upload some vids that were taken with a phone.
Would like to ride with some other foilers in FL, so if your intrested PM Me & we can meet up.

supfoo

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2019, 05:22:01 PM »
t
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 05:23:42 PM by supfoo »

exiled

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 06:48:22 PM »
Thanks for all the input! To answer some of the questions, yes I SUP surf and pretty much I feel like the only waves I can catch to foil are the same ones I would go after on the SUP.
I was hoping to catch the same waves you see in the You Tube vids! As we have way more of those.
I do not have the foil too far back as I keep it one centimeter from the front of the track, good call supunk! I feel like this is the best spot for me also.
I guess I was wanting to hear people say you cant catch them all or your board needs more volume. Sounds like I should try a front foot strap.
I'm not tech savy but will look to upload some vids that were taken with a phone.
Would like to ride with some other foilers in FL, so if your intrested PM Me & we can meet up.

I found the easiest waves to learn on were the ones that you could just barely catch on a normal board. I'm 235 lbs and I did find that I liked using my Gong XXL (slightly smaller than the GoFoil 280) on those sized waves. From a technical standpoint, you certainly don't need a wing that big to foil at your size, but maybe it will help the very beginning of the learning curb for you.

PonoBill

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2019, 07:07:55 PM »
If you are pumping, it's easy to get up on waves you'd miss on a SUP. I tried pumping on to the wave early on in my foiling efforts and it didn't help, but then I realized that it was the DOWN stroke that got me onto waves, not the up  stroke of the pump. If I bend my knees enough I can press down with my front foot, then unweight and pull up as the wave starts to lift the tail, then pump down hard to get the wing and the bottom of the board going down on the face of the wave, which gives me a good push. Couple that push and acceleration with unweighting the front foot again and you're up.

Once I get up a little bit on a small wave I start pumping the board up high on the foil and turning to go across the face. I wind up nosebleed-high and I expect to overfoil and crash, but I generally don't. I can trade height for speed by pushing down hard on the nose and stay in the energy. Of course once I get going full speed I'm really a passenger. I don't have reliable locked-in banking turns down well yet, and the slow weeble-wobble turns get me out of the energy and onto the flats way too quickly, so I dart around on the edge of control. But it's fine as long as there aren't any people near me.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supunk

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2019, 03:32:11 AM »
Hi Supfoo
Here's a link to some pics of my set up:-
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmCzoeRm
(Sorry could not sus how to insert pics)
I have the crossover board, so have attached a footstrap on a carbon plate mounted off the mast track. The pad at the tail of the board is over the mast, so I know how far to step back when taking off on the foil.
Hope that is helpful.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2019, 05:00:39 AM »
Thanks for all the input! To answer some of the questions, yes I SUP surf and pretty much I feel like the only waves I can catch to foil are the same ones I would go after on the SUP.
I was hoping to catch the same waves you see in the You Tube vids! As we have way more of those.
I do not have the foil too far back as I keep it one centimeter from the front of the track, good call supunk! I feel like this is the best spot for me also.
I guess I was wanting to hear people say you cant catch them all or your board needs more volume. Sounds like I should try a front foot strap.
I'm not tech savy but will look to upload some vids that were taken with a phone.
Would like to ride with some other foilers in FL, so if your intrested PM Me & we can meet up.

Where are you in Florida?

I heard Ricky Carroll say Hawaiian waves have the power at the bottom, while Florida waves have the power near the top. We’d all foil like hero’s if we had power at the bottom.

I’m sure you’re doing better than a lot of guys in Florida.

Newps

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Re: Need Foil Help!
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2019, 11:03:16 AM »
I completely understand your frustration with trying to learn how to foil.  We all see the vids of guys flying down line with little to no effort.  Foiling was presented and marketed as the next big thing.  Shitty flat days that you would never paddle out in were the "perfect days to foil".  Total bullshit, guys were being pulled into the waves and or rolling swells.  I feel like there are 5 people who can actually foil, everyone else is just struggling for a couple seconds of flight. 

The reality is foiling is extremely difficult to learn.  The equipment is in it's infancy and peoples sets up are all over the place.  Different board dimensions, different foil manufactures, different wing sizes, different mounting types (track vs tuttle), different mounting locations, etc....  Just getting a setup that actually flies and is stable is a huge hurtle.  By some miracle you actually get a board and foil that works together you still have a figure out how to adjust everything so that it flies and is stable.  An experienced foiler can do this pretty quickly, a newb to foiling... good luck.  Now lets talk about the cost, dear lord...you are looking at $2500 for a good board and foil.  Now get ready for damage costs, product failures, wings, boxes, on and on. 

Assuming you are a unicorn and everything lines up perfectly.  Now you are ready to hit the water and be the youtube foiler.  Wrong...wrong...wrong...it's now time for you to get your asskicked over and over again.  Trying to ride what feels like a unicycle on ice, except the unicycle is trying to kill you.  You also have to figure out where (location), when (tide) and in what conditions (wave height) you can even foil in.  Lots and lots of trial and error, lost days, cuts and bruises from the death cycle.  This is the reality of foiling, do not believe the hype. 

I shelved my setup back in June of 2018.  I just got tired of the constant tweeks, adjustments (searching for a stable setup) and product failures.  I went back to paddle surfing and suddenly I was happy again.  I haven't seen anyone else foiling either.  There used to be 6 to 8 other prone foilers out there with me.  My 10' Starboard Whopper will catch anything a foil will (in the surf zone) except it will do everything a foil can't.  Foiling is nothing but big drawn out turns, nothing aggressive in the face of the wave. 

I will try foiling again down the road but for now I am back doing what I love and enjoy.  The reality of foiling is that anyone who can actually foil has has a huge investment in their time and money into the sport.  If you have a local group of foilers that have it all figured out, you have a chance.  If you are a lone wolf trying to figure all this out by yourself....forgetaboutit...:).
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'4" x 30 1/4" x 4 1/2" 112L
L41 SIMSUP S5 - 7'6" x 27 1/2" x 4 3/16" 106L
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'8" x 31"x 4 1/2" 122L - Modded w/ a King's TUT Tuttle box and using a King's foil.
L41 SIMSUP S4 - 7'10" x 30 1/4" x 4 1/2" 120L
Starboard Whopper - 10' x 34" x 4 1/3" 171L - w/ FCS GL-1 fins