Author Topic: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....  (Read 11995 times)

comeu

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2019, 08:30:07 AM »
What happened to the big name racers like booty and the girls. I heard the drug testers were there to keep things honest.

I think budgets might have played a part for quite a few racers as i am sure budgets are a little tighter this year. Might be a factor in a few races this year!
After what happened last year itís easy to understand why M.Booth wasnít there...

Iím sure the fact that there were drug tests as nothing to do with the absence of some big names.

Steeve Teihotaata wrote on FB that he collapsed close to the finish line, he had no more water before the first half of the race. I donít think the fact he rode a dugout as much to do with his failing.

JEG

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2019, 02:37:06 PM »
I think they should think about the conditions then decide the race destance and in that heat it should be half to 12km.

Area 10

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2019, 10:00:54 PM »
I think they should think about the conditions then decide the race destance and in that heat it should be half to 12km.
That sounds sensible. I wonder how the rank positions differed at the full distance from the ones at the halfway mark? My guess is that they werenít greatly different, and in fact the finishes of the race might have been even more exciting if it had only been 12k.

If itís so hot and humid that youíve got Tahitians wilting in the heat, then maybe something isnít quite right. The people from cold climates would likely be at a huge disadvantage. Maybe that is one reason that Yuka was able to pass Olivia, and pull away, so easily?

ukgm

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2019, 01:17:01 AM »
Iím sure the fact that there were drug tests has nothing to do with the absence of some big names.


A controversial claim there.......

ukgm

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2019, 01:19:11 AM »
I think they should think about the conditions then decide the race distance and in that heat it should be half to 12km.
That sounds sensible. I wonder how the rank positions differed at the full distance from the ones at the halfway mark? My guess is that they werenít greatly different, and in fact the finishes of the race might have been even more exciting if it had only been 12k.

If itís so hot and humid that youíve got Tahitians wilting in the heat, then maybe something isnít quite right. The people from cold climates would likely be at a huge disadvantage. Maybe that is one reason that Yuka was able to pass Olivia, and pull away, so easily?

In my view, it's just poor preparation on the part of the athletes. There are plenty of sports that have to contend with such hot/humid conditions but they just equip and fuel appropriately. What likely happened is that the weather was extreme and the athletes merely equipped themselves as they would do in most races rather than doing their homework. I don't have a lot of sympathy in that case.

addapost

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2019, 03:33:02 AM »
Iím sure the fact that there were drug tests has nothing to do with the absence of some big names.


A controversial claim there.......
Not exactly sure what you mean by his opinion being controversial. But if you disagree with that opinion I am with you 100%. I took his statement to be extremely sarcastic.
Bunch of old shit

Area 10

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2019, 03:58:39 AM »
I think they should think about the conditions then decide the race distance and in that heat it should be half to 12km.
That sounds sensible. I wonder how the rank positions differed at the full distance from the ones at the halfway mark? My guess is that they werenít greatly different, and in fact the finishes of the race might have been even more exciting if it had only been 12k.

If itís so hot and humid that youíve got Tahitians wilting in the heat, then maybe something isnít quite right. The people from cold climates would likely be at a huge disadvantage. Maybe that is one reason that Yuka was able to pass Olivia, and pull away, so easily?

In my view, it's just poor preparation on the part of the athletes. There are plenty of sports that have to contend with such hot/humid conditions but they just equip and fuel appropriately. What likely happened is that the weather was extreme and the athletes merely equipped themselves as they would do in most races rather than doing their homework. I don't have a lot of sympathy in that case.
You might be right, although it is odd that elite *locals* who are world-class watermen would not know what they require for such a course.

But what is gained by having a race that is 24kms rather than 12 (apart from putting amateurs off racing because few people have the time to train for such long events)?

ukgm

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2019, 06:37:42 AM »

You might be right, although it is odd that elite *locals* who are world-class watermen would not know what they require for such a course.

But what is gained by having a race that is 24kms rather than 12 (apart from putting amateurs off racing because few people have the time to train for such long events)?

The problem though is that being a good waterman isn't the same as being a good athlete. For example, if the conditions are hot, relying on water alone for fluid intake (as one account mentions) is like something out of the dark ages for conditions this severe. It just needs time for the laidback nature of SUP to catch up with other sports so that paddlers look after themselves holistically - not just in terms of technical skill.

As to your second point, you're basically comparing a race of 1-1.5 hours to 2-3 hours. Its different in terms of its demands (the shorter one will be roughly about 5% higher in terms of exercise intensity). As you say, that would put off amateurs and for paddlers it requires a bit more volume to get the best out of it. I personally hate races of that length in any sport but if I were doing them, I'd need sessions of 3-4 hours in length behind me. Sod that.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 06:42:15 AM by ukgm »

yugi

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2019, 08:11:52 AM »

The problem though is that being a good waterman isn't the same as being a good athlete. For example, if the conditions are hot, relying on water alone for fluid intake (as one account mentions) is like something out of the dark ages for conditions this severe. It just needs time for the laidback nature of SUP to catch up with other sports so that paddlers look after themselves holistically - not just in terms of technical skill.

...
That's only according to "your" science.

There are many different theories on nutrition, and many examples of natives exploding this theories.

OK, when I say natives you think of Tarahumara indians, Pokot, Kalahari bushmen, etc. There's a local (good old continental european white) guy here I know who still holds the record for the ascent&descent of Everest. He does, well did, >8000m summits in a day going fast and light with only a snickers bar and 1/2 a liter of water.

Save your breath. He'll be the first to admit it isn't what your science advises. He's 70 now and I don't think you're going change him.

There are a ton of outliers. Point being nutrition is personal and it's mostly about reservoirs of strength and digging deep into potential. As the village kids here have shown over and over (a few world champions in ultra endurance sports here, and I guarantee you they eat more cheese on a weekly basis than you could ever imagine). They'll be the first to tell you it's all in the training.

I think Titou played it smart resting at home in slightly cooler conditions and arriving the night before the race. He has a degree in sports coaching BTW.



As to your second point, you're basically comparing a race of 1-1.5 hours to 2-3 hours. Its different in terms of its demands (the shorter one will be roughly about 5% higher in terms of exercise intensity). As you say, that would put off amateurs and for paddlers it requires a bit more volume to get the best out of it. I personally hate races of that length in any sport but if I were doing them, I'd need sessions of 3-4 hours in length behind me. Sod that.

... and there I was subscribing to the theory you only need to train half as much as race day.

[prefer mine just BTW]

ukgm

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2019, 12:04:58 PM »

The problem though is that being a good waterman isn't the same as being a good athlete. For example, if the conditions are hot, relying on water alone for fluid intake (as one account mentions) is like something out of the dark ages for conditions this severe. It just needs time for the laidback nature of SUP to catch up with other sports so that paddlers look after themselves holistically - not just in terms of technical skill.

...
That's only according to "your" science.

There are many different theories on nutrition, and many examples of natives exploding this theories.

OK, when I say natives you think of Tarahumara indians, Pokot, Kalahari bushmen, etc. There's a local (good old continental european white) guy here I know who still holds the record for the ascent&descent of Everest. He does, well did, >8000m summits in a day going fast and light with only a snickers bar and 1/2 a liter of water.

Save your breath. He'll be the first to admit it isn't what your science advises. He's 70 now and I don't think you're going change him.

There are a ton of outliers. Point being nutrition is personal and it's mostly about reservoirs of strength and digging deep into potential. As the village kids here have shown over and over (a few world champions in ultra endurance sports here, and I guarantee you they eat more cheese on a weekly basis than you could ever imagine). They'll be the first to tell you it's all in the training.

I think Titou played it smart resting at home in slightly cooler conditions and arriving the night before the race. He has a degree in sports coaching BTW.



As to your second point, you're basically comparing a race of 1-1.5 hours to 2-3 hours. Its different in terms of its demands (the shorter one will be roughly about 5% higher in terms of exercise intensity). As you say, that would put off amateurs and for paddlers it requires a bit more volume to get the best out of it. I personally hate races of that length in any sport but if I were doing them, I'd need sessions of 3-4 hours in length behind me. Sod that.

... and there I was subscribing to the theory you only need to train half as much as race day.

[prefer mine just BTW]

Címon Yugi. You know as well as I do that the science on nutrition is pretty much universally published and understood - even if its actual application needs to be tailored slightly to an athlete. Itís not snake oil. If these guys are going out there on water without even experimenting with modern fluid nutrition they are fools to themselves. Some of the outliers I suspect are better at utilising fat for fuel.

As for training distances - itís the difference between completing and maximising your aerobic engine development really. For example, the 2012 GB Team Pursuit track cycling squad (who typically raced over 4 minutes), I know were still putting in some rides of upto 6 hours in length to develop their engine as much as they could.


Area 10

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2019, 01:06:57 PM »
And donít forget that by age 14 a serious competitive swimmer will be swimming something like 40 miles a week (plus extra gym work) - and thatís training for a race that might only be 100 metres long!

That a ratio of race distance to weekly training distance of around 640x.

So to train to an equivalent level for a 23km SUP race, SUP paddlers would have to be paddling over 9000 miles *a week* :)
 

photofr

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2019, 05:11:32 AM »
While we are all different, and while I recommend and even encourage people to turn to modern nutrition and proper hydration, I have to admit that I have been using a technique that has proven very beneficial to me.

In the 90's:
I used to fonction on about 1 liter of water for every hour of intense exercise.
Since I enjoyed long distance the most, that meant an average of 3 hours of paddling, and often 4 to 5 hours.
That much time on the water meant: 4 to 6 litres of water that I have to take onboard.
It was insane!!!

In the early 2000's:
I found a different way: fast & light was my new motto.
On extreme events, I would saturate myself with water (the night before).
3.5 hours of paddling now meant only 1/2 a liter of water to carry with me.
That meant only about 500 grams of extra weight.
The result: it REALLY worked to my advantage.

CAREFUL:
I didn't do it overnight.
I was foolish enough to do it on my own - but I recommend you get monitored before changing anything.
Do not make a drastic change OVERNIGHT (make small steps).

Today, I can paddle the same way (at about 85-90% effort) and still use less than 1/2 a liter of water for 2, 3, or even 4 hours.

Food intake (and the right food) is key - if you are going to dehydrate yourself so much.

Oscar C. uses a similar method - but I am not sure how he does it being twice my weight (and height). You'd have to ask his secret, but from time to time, he goes 3.5 hours on 200cl of water - just before winning a race.

Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

yugi

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2019, 11:23:14 AM »
Thanks for the formula, A10. I'll keep that in mind if ever I plan to do a marathon. I'll run an average of 2400 miles a day. Every day. Nice.

A10 and Photofr, you illustrated well what I was trying to say.

burchas

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Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2019, 12:34:00 PM »
Thanks for the formula, A10. I'll keep that in mind if ever I plan to do a marathon. I'll run an average of 2400 miles a day. Every day. Nice.

Don't dismiss it like that yugi, if you'd smoke what they do you'll be just as able :D
in progress...

 


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