Author Topic: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs  (Read 9033 times)

JimK

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2020, 09:21:43 AM »
Maartenair

That is an amazingly enlightening video that SIC (generally considered a good board in both design and construction) flexed that much with only a reasonable sized guy (as opposed to my clydesdale mass) not overly jumping up and down and the board flexed that much.

I need to rethink inflatable SUPs

JimK
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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2020, 10:38:10 AM »

However, the review video demonstrates extremely well the weakness of the kind of static deflection test being used.

Although 7mm is very little “bend” in the board when you bear in mind that the Starboard carbon hard board bent by 5mm, when the video shows the paddler bouncing up and down in the board it’s is clear that there is the usual iSUP “boing” going on. No way in hell would the hard board be flexing like that.

I am aware of the fact that this is an older thread. Got som new info regarding that last sentence. "No way in hell would the hard board be flexing like that". Check out this video. First I thought this was a video of an inflatable board....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDH1W1Mkn4A
Wow, that does look bad. My 14x26 RS doesn’t flex like that, so I wonder if it’s just that particular board? The new SIC RS are made in the Kinetic factory in Vietnam now (where the Jimmy Lewis boards are made) rather than at Cobra in Thailand where the one in the video was presumably made. And the new ones are full PVC sandwich too, which should make them stiffer and more durable. The degree of flex in the video would affect performance, and I have watched closely several elite racers on the RS and have not seen that degree of flex. So maybe the board in the video was a lemon?

MaartenAir

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2020, 11:00:30 AM »
Maartenair

That is an amazingly enlightening video that SIC (generally considered a good board in both design and construction) flexed that much with only a reasonable sized guy (as opposed to my clydesdale mass) not overly jumping up and down and the board flexed that much.

I need to rethink inflatable SUPs

JimK
Extreme Windsurfing

Hi Jim,
How about that video.
For me an inflatable raceboard would be a sensible option, especially a stiff board like the Maliko. I only recently started racing. In my neck of the woods races are run in several categories. There is the "pro class" as in 14' hardboard, inflatable class and touring class with awards for alle categories. In the pro class there is an arms race going with the hottest equipment and  the competion is very stiff. These guys are good. I have zero chance against those guys. In the inflatable class I stand a chance to do better. I have not yet seen the Maliko inflatable or had a chance to try it out. I'd like to give it a go and see how it feels on the water.
Regards, Maarten
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 11:54:29 AM by MaartenAir »
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MaartenAir

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2020, 11:10:25 AM »
Quote
Wow, that does look bad. My 14x26 RS doesn’t flex like that, so I wonder if it’s just that particular board? The new SIC RS are made in the Kinetic factory in Vietnam now (where the Jimmy Lewis boards are made) rather than at Cobra in Thailand where the one in the video was presumably made. And the new ones are full PVC sandwich too, which should make them stiffer and more durable. The degree of flex in the video would affect performance, and I have watched closely several elite racers on the RS and have not seen that degree of flex. So maybe the board in the video was a lemon?

Yes it does look pretty bad. I raced in the wintercup over here a week ago and one of the bigger guys was on an RS. That board looked allright and he did wel on the board. Board on the video could possibly be a monday morning model. I would definitely talk to my dealer if my board behaved like the one in the video.

About the Maliko inflatable, there is not a wealth of user info on it. I'd like to see more video and I'd like to know how the rails would increase performance on a proper downwind run. That would be interesting. All in all I think it is a pretty good looking board.

Best regards, Maarten
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 11:55:15 AM by MaartenAir »
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deepmud

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2020, 10:02:58 AM »
I think he hit the frequency that was just right for that board - and it's not fair to that board, or an inflatable even, to jiggle up and down to see if it flexes. That's not what you do when you paddle a sup. I think it should be more - does it flex as you push a bow wave, changing your board shape and limiting speed? This is what some isups are really bad at - and others less bad :D.  Even the test flex on sawhorses isn't what happens on the water. Maybe a row of laser "bricks" measuring "flex per foot" and when paddling or surfing? Hmmm. PonoBill could do something with that I bet :D .

robon

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2020, 07:06:00 AM »
I think he hit the frequency that was just right for that board - and it's not fair to that board, or an inflatable even, to jiggle up and down to see if it flexes. That's not what you do when you paddle a sup. I think it should be more - does it flex as you push a bow wave, changing your board shape and limiting speed? This is what some isups are really bad at - and others less bad :D.  Even the test flex on sawhorses isn't what happens on the water. Maybe a row of laser "bricks" measuring "flex per foot" and when paddling or surfing? Hmmm. PonoBill could do something with that I bet :D .

You make a good point about how that specific movement will flex a board much more than standard paddling. With that said, the RS is flexing substantially and it's especially noticeable on the front half and how long it takes the board to go back to normal, as it continued oscillating up and down noticeably after the paddler stopped moving. This particular RS would be a wet noodle under you because that paddler looks to be a normal size dude and it's flexing considerably under him.

I remember using a BIC touring 12'6" x 30" hardboard replacement when my Glide was getting repaired and it flexed just like the board in this video when I bounced up and down. I remember paddling it, and thinking "what's going on here" because the flex was so noticeable. Then, I stopped paddling, and bounced up and down, and it just flexed wildly. I had tried the same model Bic before and it was the same deal. The flex was really noticeable under my 210-215 pounds then, and it would feel like total garbage under you.

deepmud

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2020, 11:27:23 AM »
I am more in support of the isups being unfairly pointed as "flexy" from THAT sort of test - yes they flex, but the quick jabs with strong legs and make most things flex a bit, even if you are light - and yeah that hardboard appears very susceptible - very stiff nose, shallow/thin right under the feet - any weakness and it will noodle a lot - and I admit some of my strokes have me loading and unloading a LOT of weight off my feet as I go up on my toes to stab my next stroke - but at a very low, "stroke-rate" frequency. I get a lot of bounce off my Blue Planet, less from my Red Elite. Both will wiggle like a puppy when I do that high-frequency jab. I haven't tried it on my hard board. Quick, all you guys living near liquid water, show us some different hardboards and the "wiggle test" them!!   :D ......... btw - I am very close to moving south to Seattle, where winter is like a lot of my summer  - I'll be year-round paddling soon! I wonder if my Bark Unlimited (waiting down there for me in my friend's garage) will do anything like that? Joe put a big 'ol ridge down the center, so may not.

Dusk Patrol

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2020, 11:49:30 AM »
This reminds me of Starboard’s ‘porpoise power flex’ claims.   (Maybe I’m misremembering the porpoise part :) )

Deep, please come and enjoy our 50 degree winters in Seattle...
Bullet V2; RS 14x26; JL Destroyer 9'8; BluePlanet 9'4

TallDude

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2020, 12:37:57 PM »
Here's my take. I grew up at the beach surfing, skateboarding and windsurfing. Till I started SUP'g, I pretty much had zero experience with a paddle in my hands. I kayak once about 30 years ago.  I started paddling SUP's on a 10' ULI steamroller. CapoBeachBoy (Chris) loaned me one and a paddle. A couple of loops around the harbor and I was hooked. I paddled that ULI almost everyday for about a month. Chris then loaned me a 15' ULI (race/touring inflatable). This was in 2008. I paddled that ULI miles out into the ocean by myself all the time with no pfd. If it popped, I would have been in trouble.  ::)

I borrowed another friends 18' x 25" Ohana. This was the first real race board. 14' boards didn't come into existence for another 2 years or so. It was a different feeling to paddle a hardboard. Much better glide and power in my stroke. The flex in the inflatable's does absorb and lose some of the energy you apply to the board  from you feet. The flex pattern is different in an inflatable than a hardboard. The inflatables Taco right in the middle. It's not linear like the flex in a hardboard. That Taco flex gives the board an increased rocker for maybe 1/2 of the board, raising the nose and tail out of the water. This will cause the board to plow. So as you are in your power phase (the pull) of your stroke, the increased rocker is putting the breaks on. They add kevlar stringers, rail bats,, thicken the board to create a truss effect, and try to get as high of a PSI as they will take to cut down on this. It helps, but you still lose some of your paddle effort. On a hardboard this affect is greatly reduced.

My 18' fiberglass boards vs. my 18' carbon fiber boards. Again, night and day and far as flex. I paddled an old all fiberglass 18' Ohana like my friend had years ago, and it felt like an inflatable compared to a my current, all carbon fiber unlimiteds. The deck on the Ohana even had little ripples in the glass from being compress so much. I have two 14' Hobie elites. One is all carbon fiber, the other is CF top with an S glass bottom. The all CF is noticeably stiffer with almost no flex.   

It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I don't use.

deepmud

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2020, 02:34:59 PM »
This reminds me of Starboard’s ‘porpoise power flex’ claims.   (Maybe I’m misremembering the porpoise part :) )

Deep, please come and enjoy our 50 degree winters in Seattle...

I'm pretty happy about that part since SUP has sort of taken over as my main recreation/health kick. I can't run/jog, my knees are toast - but I can paddle pretty fast, get my heart rate up there -  and I have a great time - it's kayaking all new again - but different. The cost of living is crazy but what the heck. Give up 30k in overtime and hang out with my (grown) kids - I just have to try to make all those bills I used to pay easy on OT.....lol


EDIT speaking of kayak - waaay back in the day I read Baidarka by George Dyson. He had a theory that the Aleut built their boats with flex on purpose. Then there are reports of them outpacing ships under sail  - so I would say they were downwinding. Maybe a nonplaning hull needs to do this? They also did that bifurcated bow - both a sharp/slicing bow with a big wide volume as it penetrated deeper (overcoming pearling?). They also had a flat tail - to be pushed by the following waves..... but anyway - the built the frames with slip-joints - it wasn't just the flex of wood, they tied the wood and had plates of bone to make them flex even more. So - is there a hidden bonus we don't know about? These were true watermen, they lived on the water in their boats. The Russians pushed them as far south as Baja searching for otter in big fleets (on fear of death, of course).
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 02:58:02 PM by deepmud »

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Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2020, 10:50:15 PM »
Interesting here that they are taking the view that stiffness might not be everything as regards speed in iSUPs - they seem to be steering towards weight. Presumably their comments towards the end are aimed at the Maliko inflatable?

https://youtu.be/SOijGJ5et5c

But maybe it’s different in choppy conditions.

The problem is that nothing weighs nothing. But nothing doesn’t make for a very stiff board. My Hypr Hawaii 14ft gun is double-carbon full PVC sandwich board with wood stringer plus s-glass I-beam strengthening. It is super-stiff despite being only 4.5” thick. But all that stuff weighs a bit. I suspect that, regarding the stiffness/weight relation to speed, in choppy waters, especially the ocean, speed is substantially related to stiffness relative to weight, whereas in pure flat water, weight is relatively more important.

 


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