Author Topic: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade  (Read 1421 times)

sharksupper

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GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« on: February 28, 2019, 01:47:08 PM »
Hey guys, been out for the past 2.5 months due to the fact that I broke my arm in half mountain biking, oops.  While healing I ordered a GoFoil 29" mast to upgrade my triple wing set.  I've already broken one 24.5" mast and the replacement (I had to pay for -$600) is also fatigued and sloppy after just several sessions.  Last weekend I had my first outing on the board with the new mast.  I'm still missing 50%+ of movement in my wrist in a few directions, but limping it along I was able to catch some waves and access the new mast.  Winner!  The new/bigger mast is much stiffer and more stable than the originals, massive difference in feel... I'm using the M200 set to evaluate here.  Instead of it feeling like I have a big flexible spring between the board and the wing, it now feels like I'm in control and now, not a second after I weight shift.  I was able to pump back out 4 times with the added length, and haven't noticed any additional drag due to the larger mast (thickness/width)  The old mast was 27.5" and I used a track box adapter with it.  Anyone else switch and notice the difference?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 01:49:02 PM by sharksupper »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2019, 03:12:26 PM »
Yes, demoed them all. Big difference in board stability too.

PonoBill

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2019, 05:57:00 PM »
Yup, I have two 24" masts that I will probably never use again. I'd like to have a 24" made like the 29" though--it gets kind of shallow sometimes. Yesterday I hit a submerged couch cushion at full speed. My board stopped, I didn't. Any doubts I might have had about my front strap holding my foot in a serious crash are gone--I didn't even feel my foot come out of the strap. Just bam, gone.
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paddlur

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2019, 08:28:59 PM »
Yup, I have two 24" masts that I will probably never use again. I'd like to have a 24" made like the 29" though--it gets kind of shallow sometimes. Yesterday I hit a submerged couch cushion at full speed. My board stopped, I didn't. Any doubts I might have had about my front strap holding my foot in a serious crash are gone--I didn't even feel my foot come out of the strap. Just bam, gone.
Agree with you Bill hopefully GF will make a new 24 mast to same standards as the 29 mast which I currently have and like,as sometimes depending on spots and tides etc a 24 mast comes in handy in certain situations.problem is in my case trying to find a fit for my wings with a 24 mast/fuse as I have the maliko/Iwa combo with its serial# not sure how that all works trying mix and match another mast to be compatible?
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PonoBill

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2019, 10:19:53 PM »
It's not that hard to get the fit to work. A little sanding inside the wing or stabilizer. Or if the wing fit is too loose, as my Maliko 200 and Iwa were on my 29" mast, I just used a bit of aluminum tape for a shim. It's perhaps a few thousandths difference at most. Today I needed to rework the fit of a Malio stabilizer that was too tight on my 29" mast. I could see that the inside of the stabilizer had some high spots, so I folded some coarse sandpaper several times to make it stiff and used it as a file inside the stab. It didn't take much to eliminate the high points. Then I put chalk on the fuselage and hammered the stabilizer on, then popped it off and looked at the pattern left on the fuselage. There were two obvious high points with all the chalk rubbed off. I cleaned these up, then rubbed the joint with a little silicon grease, and the stabilizer pops on with a light hammer blow, no wiggle.
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SanoSlatchSup

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2019, 10:41:35 PM »
I'm curious, are you guys using the 29.5" in a Tuttle, or throwing it in an adapter, and running it at 32"....and any idea why GF choose to go an inch different with the Tuttle mount, and adapter mount instead making them both 29 or 29.5"?

I like the idea of going 29.5", but don't like the automatic limits of placement that comes with it in a Tuttle box, and would like to have more than just the 1.5" gain I'd get with the 28.5" adapter version from what I have with the 24" Tuttle in an adapter, and the 27" mounted that I'm running now.

The 29.5 in an adapter making it 32.5" seems just a little too long, especially with the shallows that we're stuck with a lot of the time with the tides, and reef settings we have at Sano. IOWs, I've got a banged up enough wing with the 27" mast, and can only imagine what it'd look like if it were another 5.5" longer. :o

Or maybe I'm just overthinking it all...as I have a tendency to do.  :-[ :)

Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" Chelu Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

PonoBill

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 11:41:48 AM »
The extra 5" is mostly an issue when you're paddling out or moving around in shallow water. It really hasn't been a significantly different issue for me, I'm just overthinking it too in wanting a stiffer 24". The stiffness and enhanced control is the biggest value. I don't overfoil often with the 29", but I probably wouldn't with a 24" once I had a little more flying time on it.

The best of the foilers seem to be on plate mounts, but I really don't see how the adjustment is a benefit. I watch them move the plate, try it, come back in, move again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Probably more of an issue on the prone boards than SUP. I've never felt that I needed to change the position of my Tuttle. If I had a plate mount, I'd be fiddling with it. Sometimes less is more, especially if your name is Les Moore.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 11:45:31 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 01:52:31 PM »
The best of the foilers seem to be on plate mounts, but I really don't see how the adjustment is a benefit.
I can feel a 1/4 change in mast location. Annoying when its not spot on.

Quote
If I had a plate mount, I'd be fiddling with it. Sometimes less is more, especially if your name is Les Moore.
So true. Just yesterday, I made a friend who has been struggling, stop screwing around with the location and put it where I told him. I even took a sharpe to his board and marked it. He had his best session ever.

Consumers.....ugh, they can do some crazy stuff.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 01:54:23 PM by Dwight (DW) »

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 02:18:36 PM »
The extra 5" is mostly an issue when you're paddling out or moving around in shallow water. It really hasn't been a significantly different issue for me, I'm just overthinking it too in wanting a stiffer 24". The stiffness and enhanced control is the biggest value. I don't overfoil often with the 29", but I probably wouldn't with a 24" once I had a little more flying time on it.
Seems as though "stiffness and enhanced control" is a common denominator in more than one are of life, so maybe I'll have to look into the more beef mast.

Quote
The best of the foilers seem to be on plate mounts, but I really don't see how the adjustment is a benefit. I watch them move the plate, try it, come back in, move again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Probably more of an issue on the prone boards than SUP. I've never felt that I needed to change the position of my Tuttle. If I had a plate mount, I'd be fiddling with it. Sometimes less is more, especially if your name is Les Moore.
Yes, and no wrt to moving the mast. Yes, once I find the right spot for the dims of the board I don't move it. But before that, I find it takes a couple sessions to get it right where I want it on a new board, so don't want to trust that we got the Tuttle in exactly the right spot for any given board with a lucky stab in the dark while it's getting made.

Believe it or not, I'm able to feel a noticeable difference in as little as 1/4 to 1/2" difference in mast placement one way of the other...in how/when the board comes out of the water, and how the back end stays in place or wants to wander at higher speeds setting up when going into a hard(er) turn.

Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" Chelu Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

PonoBill

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 09:57:40 PM »
I can understand that for a prone surfer on the board that's shorter than a lunch tray, but for a SUP it seems a little weird. You have extra board hanging off in both the front and back. Coming off the water, OK, I'll give you that, but unless your board has some rocker in the plate area changing the AOA, then what can moving the foil possibly do to stability that isn't the same as moving your straps or feet?
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 07:12:15 AM »
I can understand that for a prone surfer on the board that's shorter than a lunch tray, but for a SUP it seems a little weird. You have extra board hanging off in both the front and back. Coming off the water, OK, I'll give you that, but unless your board has some rocker in the plate area changing the AOA, then what can moving the foil possibly do to stability that isn't the same as moving your straps or feet?

Bill I think youre perspective is skewed by Hawaiian wave power. Come to Florida and try foiling knee high waves with no push. Everything is so easy with wave power. Very little matters. But hit the limits of what is possible, OMG youll leave with your tail dragging, flat exhausted, and frustrated. There are so many people here struggling. It seems like Im the only one giving them hope because I make it look easy. Not because Im talented, I have just been doing it longer than anyone I know on a SUP around here.

Id love to give technical reasons why, but cant really. It just is the way it is.

Ive always had a talent for sorting and dialing gear. Thats why Ken Winner sent me prototypes for years. He said I was better than some of the team riders at that.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 07:15:43 AM by Dwight (DW) »

PonoBill

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 10:05:23 AM »
Actually, we ride a lot of shit, gutless waves. Especially this year. As I'm progressing I'm trying to think of the foil, not the board. Once I'm in the air what matters is foot position and pitch angle. What I'm getting at about plate vs. Tuttle is that people with plates move the plate, people with Tuttles move the straps. As long as the plate area is flat, it's pretty much the same thing though it's a more sensitive adjustment. But from what I've seen, people with plates fiddle a lot more. Probably because changing strap position is fussy, and changing foot position on a strapless board is guesswork. If you move the plate back a half inch you're moving both the front and back foot back that much. Moving the front foot half an inch is a big change, so I'm not surprised at all that moving the plate a quarter inch is a lot. Though what I see people doing generally is a lot bigger movement than that.

Possibly the best thing about a plate is that you can optimize the board for coming off the water, which is a bitch when the waves are punky. And it's one more thing that can be adjusted.  I think people tend to stick with what worked for them the first time, and then adapt to the flaws in that setup.

I'm switching to two straps to get the adjustments more consistent--I think my back foot is creeping forward. Hopefully that will also help me tighten my turns and pump better. Mr. Fugly needs all the help it can get for pumping. It's been a long time since I windsurfed every chance I got, but I remember the feeling of getting my foot in the back strap: "NOW I'm in control."
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 11:13:34 AM »
When the board is really small, and at the limits of what can float you, and what you can stand on, there becomes only one place you can stand. So that foil needs to be located exact for efficiency in the pump and paddle. Zero margin.

Then factor in how much the trim of just the board alone on the water itself changes with just the slightest error in foot placement. Think elephant on a sinker. All of a sudden the board isnt trimmed ideal for the foil to fly super easy.

So many people jump on my personal board and fail. Totally clueless that feet need to go in only one place or you fall. Unless youre my wifes weight. She can dance on anything.

Get it right, oh boy is the performance high.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 11:27:03 AM by Dwight (DW) »

PonoBill

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2019, 01:07:22 PM »
Yeah, I get that. My SimSUP was like that for surfing. Just to stand up on it I had to get my front foot in the right spot before heaving myself up. I actually marked it with tape. An inch forward in the nose sunk, an inch back and the tail sunk. That's the problem with short, narrow potato chips, and for most folks my 8'8" 29" simsup is anything but short and narrow.

Given my geezer balance and weight, I think I'm doomed to be on larger boards. Mr. Fugly is horrifically huge, but in the slop and chop, it's a big fat miracle. I can stand and paddle in junk that much fitter surfers are crawling through. I like the design of your boards a lot, but I doubt I'd be able to ride your largest size in anything but glassy waves.

I'm working hard to lose weight, but my body seems to be working harder to keep it.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

opie

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Re: GoFoil 29" mast upgrade
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2019, 08:29:45 AM »
Dwight, I've been trying to figure out where to put my mast on the 5'11" I got from you.  Where exactly do you put yours?

I was planning on asking you via email but maybe I am not the only person wondering.

(By the way I love the board.  It makes me better,  like I "bought " some talent. :))