Author Topic: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)  (Read 1476 times)

JEG

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2019, 01:29:05 PM »
I do like the BP blades and if you can find a shaft to match it with or with other brand it will be magic.

I like both palm and T handle though the T does give you a better feel of grip but the palm is just as good, it's a personal thing.

PonoBill

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2019, 01:42:24 PM »
Oval shafts are just a bitch to make. The Kialoa oval shafts were made over soft urethane mandrels that get pulled out once the epoxy is hard. The stretching from pulling shrinks the mandrel so it can be removed. But the mandrels eventually wear or break so there is a consistent expense that doesn't decline with volume. Tapered shafts are built on metal mandrels and are relatively easy to make. As soon as the mandrel is upset laterally it comes loose so it's easy to remove. Oval tapered is a possibility but the mandrels would be eye-wateringly expensive. Those kinds of design choices can easily double the cost of a shaft.

The motorsports solution for complex hollow shapes is inflated bladders that press a woven sleeve into a female mold. Out of the question for anything that's supposed to cost a few hundred dollars. An aerodynamically shaped carbon fiber suspension strut is a few thousand dollars.
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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2019, 01:53:16 PM »
Donít care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So Iíll take the risk of the extra expense. Iíve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.

So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, itís hard. But itís not *that* hard, is it?

Bean

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2019, 03:23:15 PM »
You could build a one off shaft out of foam any shape you want any grade CF you want - simply dissolve the foam once the CF is cured with acetone.


PonoBill

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2019, 03:41:47 PM »
Donít care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So Iíll take the risk of the extra expense. Iíve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.

So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, itís hard. But itís not *that* hard, is it?

I don't have anything to do with Ke Nalu anymore--not for at least five years, other than still using the paddles. So NO.
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2019, 07:26:41 PM »
Donít care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So Iíll take the risk of the extra expense. Iíve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.

So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, itís hard. But itís not *that* hard, is it?

I don't have anything to do with Ke Nalu anymore--not for at least five years, other than still using the paddles. So NO.
My post wasnít aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at all the (many) brands who currently do not offer oval shafts. As I said, Quickblade have done extremely well out of theirs. So there must be money in it, even if not a lot. If Ke Nalu or any other brand finds making oval shafts too difficult then fine, you wonít be getting my money. I guess this is one of the reasons why QB are top of the tree right now.

burchas

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2019, 08:30:12 PM »
Donít care how much it costs, I just want an oval shaft! I have never broken a paddle in 12 years of frequent SUP. So Iíll take the risk of the extra expense. Iíve got a load of round shaft paddles sitting around unused because, at the end of the day, oval shafts give you so much more control, precision, and feedback.

So please make a few. By all means charge an arm and a leg for them. But to not even bother is just... disappointing. QB manages it. ZRE manages it. Some others do too (Chinook?). So, yep, itís hard. But itís not *that* hard, is it?

I don't have anything to do with Ke Nalu anymore--not for at least five years, other than still using the paddles. So NO.
My post wasnít aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at all the (many) brands who currently do not offer oval shafts. As I said, Quickblade have done extremely well out of theirs. So there must be money in it, even if not a lot. If Ke Nalu or any other brand finds making oval shafts too difficult then fine, you wonít be getting my money. I guess this is one of the reasons why QB are top of the tree right now.

The reason I stopped using Quickblade was their shafts, especially their oval tapered. IMO
It doesn't come close to a true oval shat like the ZRE where you have a solid grip in your palm.

That is until I converted my QB blades to fit into my ZRE shafts, same goes for my KeNalu Mana.

Now that I have 6 oval shafts each with a different flex and 3 different finishes including a true
textured. All of them are travel ready with 10" range of adjustment and can accept 6 different
grips including a ZRE T, a Kialoa T and double bend extended T, QB Small P40 and the other 2
ZRE ergo plam grip in different sizes.

Now the possibilities are endless and I can use my favorite blade and grip for a certain discipline
or condition. I use several blades with 2 different grips but the one constant is the shaft.

The adjustability comes really handy when the range of boards I use it with goes from standing
at water level to 4" above the water level.

If you're looking to spend some extra money which obviously you are willing to, you can
really cover all your bases. Alternately you can keep buying more paddles and keep bitching
about the lack of options. Personally, I'm not one to bitch but my wife tells me it's really fun
when you get to a certain level of mastery, she is a true master as in master Yoda level ;D
- Ocean Ripple 16x25
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- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25 - https://goo.gl/Su8lJk
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
- Kialoa Hulu 87
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2019, 02:58:55 AM »
But wouldnít it have been easier if you hadnít had to go to that trouble?

I had a ZRE oval shaft, but it was too big a diameter and too stiff for my liking.

My point was that Iíve stopped buying paddles now, because I canít get what I want.

Yes, maybe Iíll consider some Frankenstein option, using the bits and pieces I already have. But Iíd rather be able to buy what I want off the shelf. Iím surprised that that suggestion is proving so controversial.

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Re: Black Project - Hydro (Well that was PDQ)
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2019, 05:20:08 AM »
But wouldnít it have been easier if you hadnít had to go to that trouble?

I had a ZRE oval shaft, but it was too big a diameter and too stiff for my liking.

My point was that Iíve stopped buying paddles now, because I canít get what I want.

Yes, maybe Iíll consider some Frankenstein option, using the bits and pieces I already have. But Iíd rather be able to buy what I want off the shelf. Iím surprised that that suggestion is proving so controversial.

I know you had it and I still have that one. Things change you know and products progress
If you're willing to spend a little more. Mine is a smaller diameter than the original shaft and
as far as stiffness, I have one more flexible than the QB flyweight shaft, do you need more?

Your suggestion is not controversial just unrealistic apparently. If there was enough demand
companies would turn up with these options, I know, I called and bugged just about all of them.

It seems like only you and I care enough for this judging by the amount of paddles we have
between us but once realized nothing is going to happen I decided to go another route which turn
out to be very successful for my needs.

Bottom line, you already throwing around a lot of money in a search for unicorn, seems to me it
would be more productive to spend some more and get exactly what you want, if enough people
see it and like it, companies will wake up, that's exactly what happened with shaft texture, started
with grip enhancers and now I see companies turning up with real textured shafts.
- Ocean Ripple 16x25
- SIC Standamaran (S-16) - https://goo.gl/7myGAo
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - https://goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25 - https://goo.gl/Su8lJk
- ZRE Lightning 75
- Kenalu Mana 82
- Kialoa Hulu 87
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86