2020 Vision

[PonoBill]

Media has always been biased, but by the measure of 30 years ago (which wasn't perfect by any means, look at any analysis of media coverage of the Vietnam war), CNN and a host of the "factual but biased" sources are lying liars.

News isn't news. It's news stories (or maybe now it's news narratives to make it sound important) which means it's tailored to appeal to an audience. The reason Eastbound considers CNN to be different from Brietbart is that he is their audience. I don't believe he digests everything they spew without reservation, but neither do the whacks that consume Brietbart or spend time on Infowars.

There is no audience for straight news other than as fodder for media outlets. The job of media is to sell an audience to advertisers, and these days, at the extreme, to confirm the biases of an audience and motivate them politically. All the rest of the measures are fluff designed to separate one audience from another. The infographic is useful to see where the media is positioned, but anyone listening to NPR expecting to get straight news is delusional.

[RideTheGlide]

Media has always been biased, but by the measure of 30 years ago (which wasn't perfect by any means, look at any analysis of media coverage of the Vietnam war), CNN and a host of the "factual but biased" sources are lying liars.

News isn't news. It's news stories (or maybe now it's news narratives to make it sound important) which means it's tailored to appeal to an audience. The reason Eastbound considers CNN to be different from Brietbart is that he is their audience. I don't believe he digests everything they spew without reservation, but neither do the whacks that consume Brietbart or spend time on Infowars.

There is no audience for straight news other than as fodder for media outlets. The job of media is to sell an audience to advertisers, and these days, at the extreme, to confirm the biases of an audience and motivate them politically. All the rest of the measures are fluff designed to separate one audience from another. The infographic is useful to see where the media is positioned, but anyone listening to NPR expecting to get straight news is delusional.

I think most of the mainstream news is fairly accurate about who was where, what they did and what they said. It's the twists on it to assign intent; the choice of verbiage, especially in the headline; whether they fact check; how they choose to cherry pick the quotes; etc, etc, etc. With hard news like shootings, where it happened, how many people were killed and/or injured, whether the suspect is in custody, killed or at large are generally accurate  everywhere, except maybe during the incident. But the motivations,implications of what might have been done, who was a hero, whether  hateful rhetoric stoked it, etc, is going to vary. There are some outright fabrications, but most of the bias I say is drawing conclusions and presenting it like it is one more fact.

[Admin]

and biden over bernie?

Are you seeing this from the media?  I am not.  I am seeing a greater coverage of even the candidates with much lower polling #'s.  Pete, Harris, Warren, Klobuchar.  The problem is that the salacious stories or anything with a hint of conflict gets undue airtime.  It is ratings first and that allows a huge opening for the Trumps of the world who are more than happy to provide.

[eastbound]

poor phrasing by me admin--i meant that, whatever the case bernie vs biden, cnn attempts to traffic in fact, where fox breitbart clearly dont hew to fact comparably--at least acc to the chart----and ive been behind on news of recent

i do worry about hunter's overseas "work"---the hair sniffing seems to have faded, but this may get legs

honestly, warren is the cleanest candidate out there---but for the Pocahontas routine, which i think is much ado about nothing--but it's stuck to her

[paddlinglass]

MSM is owned and operated by the ruling class, so the narrative we are fed is one that protects their power.
Of course they are going to portray Biden more favorably than Bernie or Tulsi Gabbard.

"Democrats would rather lose to a Republican than win with a progressive".  J Dore

Try looking at things from that perspective for a bit, see if it doesn't shed light on the msm narrative.

[Area 10]

Wow, I thought we were in a bad state politically, in the UK. But I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that you guys are totally screwed. You all want change, and you apparently want it badly. But at the same time you are unwilling to consider anything that represents actual change.

I wonder if this represents some kind of political dependency, like a drug dependency: you know that unless you change course, the place you are ultimately headed is disaster. But you are so hooked into your beliefs about ultra-capitalism, and doing what you’ve always done, that you just can’t see a different life for yourselves, or find a way to break your habitual ways of thinking. This is occurring even when on an almost daily basis some very erudite observations are appearing here - on a Standup paddle forum (!!!) - which suggest that there may be many better ways forward.

As a total outsider, and with no dog in this fight, it seems to me that Warren is a hugely impressive individual, and she appears to be a mature adult rather than the kidult you currently have. She also has the key leadership quality of not being afraid to say what she wants to do, and how. Warren may be not so warm and fuzzy as some. But then neither is the orange narcissist. I could imagine Warren really leading on the world stage, and promoting US interests globally (and therefore at home) in a way that Trump is incapable of doing.

[Admin]

MSM is owned and operated by the ruling class, so the narrative we are fed is one that protects their power.
Of course they are going to portray Biden more favorably than Bernie or Tulsi Gabbard.

"Democrats would rather lose to a Republican than win with a progressive".  J Dore

Try looking at things from that perspective for a bit, see if it doesn't shed light on the msm narrative.

Most Democrats do not think they would win with a progressive (assuming that you mean those holding the Dem socialist branding or those leaning towards that).  Moreover most genuinely do not want that.  There was a recent poll that showed that 87 percent of the left considered themselves centrist left. 

[RideTheGlide]

As a total outsider, and with no dog in this fight, it seems to me that Warren is a hugely impressive individual, and she appears to be a mature adult rather than the kidult you currently have. She also has the key leadership quality of not being afraid to say what she wants to do, and how. Warren may be not so warm and fuzzy as some. But then neither is the orange narcissist. I could imagine Warren really leading on the world stage, and promoting US interests globally (and therefore at home) in a way that Trump is incapable of doing.

I like Warren. She is like Bernie only with less anger and better explanations. Unfortunately those explanations make a lot of people's eyes glaze over, especially when she resorts to using liberal tools like facts and math. I don't see her swaying blue collar voters in large numbers or doing well debating Trump. It's an unfortunate reality in the US that it takes more than just better ideas to win elections.

BTW, I think the rest of the world does have a dog in the fight.

EDIT - I wish we had more parties that were truly in the mix like most of the world. IMO, the reason Bernie, Warren and Kamala are DEMs is because if they were Green Party, which is more closely aligned with their platforms, they would never get elected.

[Admin]

I like Warren. She is like Bernie only with less anger and better explanations.

Warren is basically for free everything.  Plus a wealth tax (not just a high income tax but also grabbing existing wealth).  That is way too far for me.  I would like to see single payer get done.  We can do that with a centrist.

[LBsup]

This has been a fascinating topic!  At first I didn’t pay attention I thought the topic was eye sight but I caught up and I’ve learned a lot and have gained a lot of respect for the amount of information/knowledge several of you have to contribute.  I do follow news and have my views but have refrained from participating cause I feel I just don’t have enough info to keep up with you guys/gals(if there are any).  Alls I’ll say is I do NOT vote republican and leave it at that.  Thanks all!

[Weasels wake]

Wow, I thought we were in a bad state politically, in the UK. But I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that you guys are totally screwed. You all want change, and you apparently want it badly. But at the same time you are unwilling to consider anything that represents actual change.

From what you've been writing, seems to me that you had already came to that conclusion a couple of years ago.
Also we definitely got political change in 2016, however we probably won't get any change in 2020.

[Rider]

I heard Liz is offering free boards and foils and as of today a windfoil as well. My only question is do we get to pick colors?

[jpeter]

I like Warren. She is like Bernie only with less anger and better explanations.

Warren is basically for free everything.  Plus a wealth tax (not just a high income tax but also grabbing existing wealth).  That is way too far for me.  I would like to see single payer get done.  We can do that with a centrist.

Finally something we  an agree on    Liz is sounding desperate with all the giveaway's.   
As someone who is 10x more native American than her, and still not enough to check the box,  I consider her to be lacking character.   (not that that matters anymore)
JP

[RideTheGlide]

I like Warren. She is like Bernie only with less anger and better explanations.

Warren is basically for free everything.  Plus a wealth tax (not just a high income tax but also grabbing existing wealth).  That is way too far for me.  I would like to see single payer get done.  We can do that with a centrist.

Finally something we  an agree on    Liz is sounding desperate with all the giveaway's.   
As someone who is 10x more native American than her, and still not enough to check the box,  I consider her to be lacking character.   (not that that matters anymore)
JP

I think the Native American ancestry thing is a bit overblown. There was never a substantial benefit proffered to her for checking that box. She grew up hearing that she had NA ancestry and she checked the box filling out forms. She should have looked into it further and done an "oops - my bad" when it first came up.
I also think the "free everything" is more than a little bit overblown. Education and health care costs are two of the biggest barriers to intergenerational mobility; countries that have policies to give equal access to education and health care have much higher rates of mobility. A very strong case exists for removing the barriers. Our failure to address barriers to intergenerational mobility in the past is the basis for considering reparations this far into the future. No, we haven't made it impossible for anyone to rise up, but we have made it a hell of a lot harder for some groups than others.
The wealth tax is a non starter. Taxing money when it changes hands is the only politically palatable option.

Having said all that, I don't think she is electable. Too much attack surface and too far into details that most voters don't want to hear even if they understand them. I don't think she will fare well in debates when you have to speak in sound bites with no long explanations. I don't see her winning back much of the blue collar vote that HRC lost to Trump. Biden is more centrist than I want and is literally "old guard" but I think he can win back those blue collar voters and beat Trump.

[Admin]

I like Warren. She is like Bernie only with less anger and better explanations.

Warren is basically for free everything.  Plus a wealth tax (not just a high income tax but also grabbing existing wealth).  That is way too far for me.  I would like to see single payer get done.  We can do that with a centrist.

Finally something we  an agree on    Liz is sounding desperate with all the giveaway's.   

.  I bet there is a quite a bit.

I am not for debt forgiveness, free day care, reparations, free higher ed in its current form (although I would be for zero interest college loans and I do think there could be some amazing things done that with higher that could be free), etc.

But...I would still vote for any Dem to get rid of Trump.