Poll

This is a uniquely informed and diverse group to survey on any question, most definitely this one.  At this point, for whom would you cast your ballot?

Trump
19 (46.3%)
Biden
9 (22%)
Sanders
8 (19.5%)
Booker
4 (9.8%)
Klobuchar
1 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: March 21, 2019, 04:39:47 PM

Author Topic: 2020 Vision  (Read 124003 times)

spirit4earth

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #735 on: April 30, 2019, 07:12:55 AM »
Wow, it sounds like you guys have got it even worse than we have: in the UK, we ordinary folk are being totally shafted by the super-rich, and the corporations, just like you. But at least we KNOW we are being shafted. It seems like nearly half of the US population are getting it hard up the back passage from some rich white guy but they are just bending over and letting him do it while not taking their eyes off the poor undocumented migrant working for a pittance, while somehow blaming the pain in their ass on that poor soul.

I like this explanation.
https://i.imgur.com/O2KHoLl.gifv

Exactly right.

pdxmike

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #736 on: April 30, 2019, 01:07:07 PM »

Notice that here, in the enlightened Standupzone,  TRUMP is at 46 percent after being in office for 2 years. 

JP
Is that relevant to whether there should be an electoral system?


What I see is plenty of people here would vote for Trump, given those choices, which isn't surprising.  I also see that slightly more people would vote Democratic than Republican, which isn't surprising.  I assume not all of those would vote for a Democrat that wasn't the one they want.  I'd guess actual polls during past presidencies would have the incumbent doing better after two years, but I don't know. But again, all irrelevant to the electoral issue.

It's relevant based on the idea that Hillary supporters and other dems are the ones clamoring for the EC to be gotten rid of.
I'm not either one.  Trump himself was clamoring to get rid of it before he was elected. I'd guess if he'd won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote he'd be clamoring to end it again.


If Democrats supported something you liked, would you reject it because they supported it?  I base what I prefer on the merits of the arguments, not who's doing the arguing.





jpeter

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #737 on: April 30, 2019, 01:29:55 PM »

Notice that here, in the enlightened Standupzone,  TRUMP is at 46 percent after being in office for 2 years. 

JP
Is that relevant to whether there should be an electoral system?


What I see is plenty of people here would vote for Trump, given those choices, which isn't surprising.  I also see that slightly more people would vote Democratic than Republican, which isn't surprising.  I assume not all of those would vote for a Democrat that wasn't the one they want.  I'd guess actual polls during past presidencies would have the incumbent doing better after two years, but I don't know. But again, all irrelevant to the electoral issue.

It's relevant based on the idea that Hillary supporters and other dems are the ones clamoring for the EC to be gotten rid of.
I'm not either one.  Trump himself was clamoring to get rid of it before he was elected. I'd guess if he'd won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote he'd be clamoring to end it again.


If Democrats supported something you liked, would you reject it because they supported it?  I base what I prefer on the merits of the arguments, not who's doing the arguing.

My politics support most common sense environmental issues,  so that would be a democrat area I agree on.  (I don't happen to believe in the way global warming is being addressed.) 
I believe in states rights being maintained. 
At heart I am a libertarian and a conservative. 
I view Trump as an a-hole,  along with 95% of congress.  What I like about Trump is:  he believes in capitalism and he is bucking the system (both parties).  I don't believe he is doing anything for personal financial gain.   I also believe he acts to fulfil his ego which is not good.
It downright scares me how the democrats, FBI, news media, and part of his own party have spent the last 2 years trying to get rid of him.  So much could have been accomplished if they had decided to work with him.

fwiw,  I couldn't bring myself to vote in the Trump Hillary election,  but all the BS investigation motivated me to hold my nose and pull the R handle on every candidate in my state election last year.
JP

Area 10

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #738 on: April 30, 2019, 01:46:09 PM »
Thanks for explaining your position JP. But what does it mean to “believe in capitalism”? I’m a foreigner so you’ll have to help me out: we don’t treat economic systems as having similar status as religions, like you do in the US: we prefer to pick and choose according to the issue we are trying to solve. So “capitalism” isn’t something we’d “believe in”, but a tool to try to achieve a particular outcome. So, do you mean that you believe that money will sort everything out, and that an unfettered free market, totally free of government regulations, will deliver the best for the population? Or is your belief something else?

Admin

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #739 on: April 30, 2019, 02:01:32 PM »
[
fwiw,  I couldn't bring myself to vote in the Trump Hillary election,  but all the BS investigation motivated me to hold my nose and pull the R handle on every candidate in my state election last year.
JP

If you mean the Mueller report, that was an entirely Republican inspired affair carried out under Republican leadership (Mueller, Rosenstein, Trump). 

jpeter

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #740 on: May 01, 2019, 05:46:36 AM »
Thanks for explaining your position JP. But what does it mean to “believe in capitalism”? I’m a foreigner so you’ll have to help me out: we don’t treat economic systems as having similar status as religions, like you do in the US: we prefer to pick and choose according to the issue we are trying to solve. So “capitalism” isn’t something we’d “believe in”, but a tool to try to achieve a particular outcome. So, do you mean that you believe that money will sort everything out, and that an unfettered free market, totally free of government regulations, will deliver the best for the population? Or is your belief something else?
20 years ago one wouldn't have to state that they believe in capitalism if they were in the USA.  Right now I see the Dems being taken over by socialist ideas.

I believe that markets will figure things out but the government needs rules to keep things fair and to regulate pollution, safety, etc... 

Our government over-regulates in many areas.  At the same time we have been allowing banks and other corporations to grow too large so there monopoly problems.   

Not a fan of corporate welfare either,  that's due to our congress being influenced by $$$.

jpeter

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #741 on: May 01, 2019, 05:55:12 AM »
[
fwiw,  I couldn't bring myself to vote in the Trump Hillary election,  but all the BS investigation motivated me to hold my nose and pull the R handle on every candidate in my state election last year.
JP

If you mean the Mueller report, that was an entirely Republican inspired affair carried out under Republican leadership (Mueller, Rosenstein, Trump).

I'm not sure anyone from msnbc would even say that. 

Area 10

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #742 on: May 01, 2019, 06:21:58 AM »
Thanks for explaining your position JP. But what does it mean to “believe in capitalism”? I’m a foreigner so you’ll have to help me out: we don’t treat economic systems as having similar status as religions, like you do in the US: we prefer to pick and choose according to the issue we are trying to solve. So “capitalism” isn’t something we’d “believe in”, but a tool to try to achieve a particular outcome. So, do you mean that you believe that money will sort everything out, and that an unfettered free market, totally free of government regulations, will deliver the best for the population? Or is your belief something else?
20 years ago one wouldn't have to state that they believe in capitalism if they were in the USA.  Right now I see the Dems being taken over by socialist ideas.

I believe that markets will figure things out but the government needs rules to keep things fair and to regulate pollution, safety, etc... 

Our government over-regulates in many areas.  At the same time we have been allowing banks and other corporations to grow too large so there monopoly problems.   

Not a fan of corporate welfare either,  that's due to our congress being influenced by $$$.
USA (capitalist) GDP growth in 2018= 2.9%

China (socialist republic) GDP growth in 2018 = 6.6%

:) :) :) :) :) :)

Admin

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #743 on: May 01, 2019, 08:43:52 AM »
[
fwiw,  I couldn't bring myself to vote in the Trump Hillary election,  but all the BS investigation motivated me to hold my nose and pull the R handle on every candidate in my state election last year.
JP

If you mean the Mueller report, that was an entirely Republican inspired affair carried out under Republican leadership (Mueller, Rosenstein, Trump).

I'm not sure anyone from msnbc would even say that.

It is a fact.  Who hired Rosenstein?  Who appointed Mueller?  All Republicans beginning with the president.

Bean

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #744 on: May 01, 2019, 08:46:34 AM »
Yes, all three are registered Republicans...Admin for the win! ;D ;D ;D

Tom

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #745 on: May 01, 2019, 09:30:19 AM »
....a nd do was Comey

eastbound

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #746 on: May 01, 2019, 09:46:31 AM »
if trumps says it, fact check it immediately--before you even consider the meaning, let alone share the message with anyone (lest you make a fool of yourself for believing/disseminating fallacy)----because so much of what Trump says is mischaracterization, or bald lying



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iopsailor

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #747 on: May 01, 2019, 09:57:40 AM »
if trumps says it, fact check it immediately--before you even consider the meaning, let alone share the message with anyone (lest you make a fool of yourself for believing/disseminating

Not just Trump. In journalism, they say “If your mother says she loves you, check it out”.  If you’ve ever been present at an event that was reported in the media and compared their version with what you saw, you’ve seen huge differences.

eastbound

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #748 on: May 01, 2019, 10:09:36 AM »
trump lies and mischaracterizes continually and recklessly--

media??--some is crap--fox breitbart etc--but national review, wash post, ny times wsj, npr--these are credible entities that consider good fact checking critical to their reporting, and their brand--and they lean both ways politically, but they value facts and accurate reporting

trump tries to stir up hate for the media because his lying act is so often reported by those who deal in fact, like the media properties i mention above

fake news and fakery in general is the wheelhouse of trump and his people--that the trumpians claim "fake news" any time any entity calls them on the constant lying has become a bit of a bore to any who actually consume decent media--dont get sucked into that..........

woe be unto any who quote trump--they will likely look dumb when confronted with fact--quote the wsj, natioanl review, ny times? youll generally be just fine with your facts
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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #749 on: May 01, 2019, 10:23:48 AM »
....a nd do was Comey

...and Jeff Sessions.  The whole group has been Republican.  If you didn't like these investigations the logical choice would be vote Democrat.

 


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