Poll

This is a uniquely informed and diverse group to survey on any question, most definitely this one.  At this point, for whom would you cast your ballot?

Trump
19 (46.3%)
Biden
9 (22%)
Sanders
8 (19.5%)
Booker
4 (9.8%)
Klobuchar
1 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: March 21, 2019, 04:39:47 PM

Author Topic: 2020 Vision  (Read 124070 times)

Chan

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #675 on: April 27, 2019, 01:24:41 PM »
 
Quote
There are very few swing states.  I am not promoting this but it is a fact that plays into low turnout.


That's news to me.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 01:31:04 PM by Chan »

eastbound

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #676 on: April 27, 2019, 01:25:09 PM »
i want to win, so who knows who ill end up supporting?

but i really like e warren---and she's legit--self-educated, extremely smart, no silver spoon ever, etc--unless you buy into the trumped up pocahantas crap
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Chan

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #677 on: April 27, 2019, 01:25:15 PM »
Vote by mail (email) should be the goal for a modern democracy.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 01:28:52 PM by Chan »

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #678 on: April 27, 2019, 01:42:12 PM »
In surveys of the worlds democracies, in a measure of those eligible voters who do vote in a given country, the US regularly finishs at the bottom of the 126 or so lands.

In the Trump win more than half the Americans did not use their vote.
If the president is chosen by less than 25% of the voters does the democracy work?

Why don’t more people vote? 

The electoral college plays into it.  In most states the viewpoint is that it really won't matter as the state is for all practical purposes already decided, so many stay home.  There are very few swing states.  I am not promoting this but it is a fact that plays into low turnout.
I hadn't thought of that--good point. In a state where all the electoral votes go to the winner, and it's assumed 1,000,000 people will vote for the winner, there's no point in voting for the other candidate unless there will be at least 1,000,000 votes for them.  A 1,000,000 to 999,999 result is the same as a 1,000,000 to 0 result.  999,999 votes are wasted.

In regard to turnout, Oregon solved the logistical impediments to voting by going to voting by mail.  Once you've done that, the idea of going somewhere to vote seems primitive, like going to the video store to rent a video.

48 states and District of Columbia are winner take all.  California for instance has 12% of the US population.  62 % voted for Clinton.  The state has voted Dem since 1988.  NY is similar as are many other states.  It is viewed as a predetermined outcome.  It is a strong demotivator.  There would be a huge increase in voter turnout if voters felt like their vote actually mattered.

There are a few (very few) more states in play but this gets to the point:

« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 02:02:49 PM by Admin »

Chan

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #679 on: April 27, 2019, 01:57:51 PM »
Yeah but,

If the electoral system were to be eliminated entirely the rural/less populated state vote would be all but silenced.  However, as it currently stands, the urban city states are diluted to the point that the coastal states (most populated) have less representation then rural states. 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 02:01:21 PM by Chan »

eastbound

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #680 on: April 27, 2019, 02:12:04 PM »
great map

system needs repair such that the us population is better represented--i hear and agree we dont want a completely urban-dominated national government--but not sure why big stretches of empty land get priority in deciding our elections??
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RideTheGlide

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #681 on: April 27, 2019, 03:51:03 PM »
great map

system needs repair such that the us population is better represented--i hear and agree we dont want a completely urban-dominated national government--but not sure why big stretches of empty land get priority in deciding our elections??
I do not live in a big city; I live near a medium sized one. Anyway, we are a democracy; if most people are in metro areas of large cities, then they should have more representation than those that live outside metro areas.
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pdxmike

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #682 on: April 27, 2019, 04:08:41 PM »
Yeah but,

If the electoral system were to be eliminated entirely the rural/less populated state vote would be all but silenced.  However, as it currently stands, the urban city states are diluted to the point that the coastal states (most populated) have less representation then rural states.
You could argue that that's what the senate is for.  Wyoming gets the same representation as California there.  The senate is just half of 1 of branch, but it has plenty of power.  Maybe the senate is enough of a nod to making sure that small states' interests aren't overrun by larger ones, while the electoral college goes too far in favoring small states.

lucabrasi

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #683 on: April 27, 2019, 06:22:27 PM »
In surveys of the worlds democracies, in a measure of those eligible voters who do vote in a given country, the US regularly finishs at the bottom of the 126 or so lands.
In the Trump win more than half the Americans did not use their vote.
If the president is chosen by less than 25% of the voters does the democracy work?
The electoral college plays into it.  In most states the viewpoint is that it really won't matter as the state is for all practical purposes already decided, so many stay home.  There are very few swing states.  I am not promoting this but it is a fact that plays into low turnout.
I hadn't thought of that--good point. In a state where all the electoral votes go to the winner, and it's assumed 1,000,000 people will vote for the winner, there's no point in voting for the other candidate unless there will be at least 1,000,000 votes for them.  A 1,000,000 to 999,999 result is the same as a 1,000,000 to 0 result.  999,999 votes are wasted.
48 states and District of Columbia are winner take all.  California for instance has 12% of the US population.  62 % voted for Clinton.  The state has voted Dem since 1988.  NY is similar as are many other states.  It is viewed as a predetermined outcome.  It is a strong demotivator.  There would be a huge increase in voter turnout if voters felt like their vote actually mattered.


The thing is.........it does matter.

You could argue that that's what the senate is for.  Wyoming gets the same representation as California there.  The senate is just half of 1 of branch, but it has plenty of power.  Maybe the senate is enough of a nod to making sure that small states' interests aren't overrun by larger ones, while the electoral college goes too far in favoring small states.
Yeah, it's not a bad system the way it is and I think the electoral is good and needed
BUT,
Way more elections are happening on that day than just the president and in the years when the president isn't on the ballot the turnout is even lower. An argument can be made for the reason everyone staying home in Calif or Wyoming (and others) as the presidential winner is already predetermined for the most part but their local and state reps and issues are still at stake.
We're really just a bunch of lazy disinterested oafs is really all it is.
Has voter turnout always been such a small percentage of the population? I don't know but I would imagine it has declined steadily since the 50's or so.....something needs to change there. I think it increased when Obama ran in 08 (still a small percentage) and was down again in 12 and 16?
Mail would be great...I know some who just get an absentee ballot. No clue what percentage of the voting population has email even if it does seem like everyone has it. Would still need to have some sort of public access or other option.




PonoBill

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #684 on: April 27, 2019, 08:11:42 PM »
Actually, voter turnout has not declined, it's steadily increased since 1995 and the turnout for the 2018 midterms was the highest percentage of voters vs. eligible in 100 years. .



This is, of course, as a percentage of total population and is more a graph of who is allowed to vote than it is a measure of how participatory our democracy is. Women, 18 year olds, blacks, etc.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 08:18:33 PM by PonoBill »
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Area 10

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #685 on: April 28, 2019, 04:19:33 AM »
Won’t this be an obstacle for Biden with a key demographic for him? Trump could get away with forced sex with a minor, if he wanted to, because the people who vote for him kinda expect that from their president and just don’t care. But it’s different rules if you are a Dem: you are going to be held to a higher moral standard.

https://youtu.be/4oPnd911FcM

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #686 on: April 28, 2019, 04:49:45 AM »
Won’t this be an obstacle for Biden with a key demographic for him? Trump could get away with forced sex with a minor, if he wanted to, because the people who vote for him kinda expect that from their president and just don’t care. But it’s different rules if you are a Dem: you are going to be held to a higher moral standard.

https://youtu.be/4oPnd911FcM

It is really the opposite.  Joe is one of the most well vetted guys in public life.  Most feel that he is a known entity.  Sexist labels are not going to stick to guys like Bernie or Joe because we have history with them   We feel like we know them.  Joe is polling exceptionally well with women.  Better than any of the female candidates.  Same is true with Millennial's.     

jpeter

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #687 on: April 28, 2019, 04:56:50 AM »
Yeah but,

If the electoral system were to be eliminated entirely the rural/less populated state vote would be all but silenced.  However, as it currently stands, the urban city states are diluted to the point that the coastal states (most populated) have less representation then rural states.
You could argue that that's what the senate is for.  Wyoming gets the same representation as California there.  The senate is just half of 1 of branch, but it has plenty of power.  Maybe the senate is enough of a nod to making sure that small states' interests aren't overrun by larger ones, while the electoral college goes too far in favoring small states.

Electoral college is part of our system of government.   We don't give the states "a nod".  States have power, no need to whittle away at it.

lucabrasi

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #688 on: April 28, 2019, 05:44:18 AM »
Actually, voter turnout has not declined, it's steadily increased since 1995 and the turnout for the 2018 midterms was the highest percentage of voters vs. eligible in 100 years. .
I forgot about the 2018 turnout increase...…

...….We in the UK pay less for our drugs than you do because we have a National Health Service that is the largest employer in the world. So it has huge bargaining power...…...
And the point AOC was making was very clear: that it is fundamentally unfair for the taxpayer to fund drug research and then not get a return on that investment when the drug is taken to market. She is proposing that the pharma companies should have to pay back to the people the investment they made, when the drug starts making money. At the moment you are paying twice for your drugs (the ones invented in the US): you pay for it to be developed, and then you pay when you use it too. Doesn’t that seem unfair to you?
UK health system is the largest employer in the world? No shit? I had no clue nor would have even guessed close.
I don't think the UK has the most buying power for the drugs tho, I think that would be us (or China but I got no clue what their health system is about) but where I go with that is your system might be bigger but we got more people buying the drugs than anyone so we should have the buying power no matter how big the buyer is? Wouldn't it work like that?
I'm going back here, I answered my question.......I think.
We don't have the biggest buying power. Tax $ for research then the buyers are split up. Medicare and VA for tax $ it sounds like. Why wouldn't those be part of the same pool? Sounds like they might not be? But then it's split further........CVS, Walmart, Kroger, and on and on and on. Fractured down so that even if the US public is the biggest customer the buyers for the product are diluted to a much smaller scale. Still, I think the bigger issue is why is so much of our money is used to fund R&D in the first place (as was asked/stated elsewhere but not by her).

Won’t this be an obstacle for Biden with a key demographic for him? Trump could get away with forced sex with a minor, if he wanted to, because the people who vote for him kinda expect that from their president and just don’t care. But it’s different rules if you are a Dem: you are going to be held to a higher moral standard. https://youtu.be/4oPnd911FcM
C'mon dude, you're better than this.
I know you want to inject your superior moral standards on us but I thought I had noticed that tailing off. Maybe I just ignored it before I participated...
Yeah..the bus deal..........it was awful and didn't seem to phase the votes (which I did find a bit surprising) but still......
Has the tone in questioning on such things seemed to have changed or is it just edited that way? It kind of looks like the overall tone has changed.
I can't believe I jumped in here.
Oh, I guess I can......sheesh....

« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 05:54:47 AM by lucabrasi »

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #689 on: April 28, 2019, 06:04:28 AM »
I’ll tell you why you spend so much on R&D. It’s because otherwise little of value would be created. Without the innovations that your universities make, the drug companies would never get anywhere. You can’t impose a full market system on medical research without it becoming as corrupt as politics. And you don’t want that when your life depends on it.

Furthermore, big pharma and other medical businesses are a large income generator for the US.

But you can’t rely on them making the initial basic science discoveries that underpin advances in medicine. Hell, you can’t even really rely on them bringing to market the best or most cost-effective products.

 


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