Poll

This is a uniquely informed and diverse group to survey on any question, most definitely this one.  At this point, for whom would you cast your ballot?

Trump
19 (46.3%)
Biden
9 (22%)
Sanders
8 (19.5%)
Booker
4 (9.8%)
Klobuchar
1 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: March 21, 2019, 04:39:47 PM

Author Topic: 2020 Vision  (Read 123950 times)

Area 10

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #345 on: March 30, 2019, 04:31:42 AM »
Very articulate, very reasonable. But IMO his style of communication is too abstract and intellectual for the majority, I fear. His words just wash over you. And the only things from that interview that will stick with the average voter will be: Butt-cheek; transgender toilets, too young, blah blah blah... what was that about “freedom to” vs. “freedom from” - what the hell is he talking about?”. So, yes, reasonable and educated people will feel comfortable with this kind of dialogue, but I think to the MAGA masses, this is just another slick PC politician with a funny name who doesn’t understand what matters to them.

IMO the Democrats need to find someone who can communicate with people as simply as Trump does. And who doesn’t see transgender toilets as the most important issue facing the world right now. Sadly, this guy isn’t that person. AOC does better.

It seems that there is so little real political talent on the world stage right now - not just in the US, but across the free world. I guess there are easier ways to become rich and influential these days than be a politician.

RideTheGlide

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #346 on: March 30, 2019, 04:44:00 AM »
I think Pete Buttigieg is probably on every other DEM's short list for VP. I like him a lot, but I am not sure he can garner enough support in this cycle. For those with a short attention span, watch the last minute or two of the video Admin linked instead of the beginning.

I do have to put things in perspective when I listen to people speak. I am bad about blowing through concepts in a sentence or two and jumping into implementation and I am pretty good at following people who do the same. As I am often reminded, most people do not. I often get stopped in design meetings and asked to start over. The freedom and faith points really resonated with me even though I am not a person of faith. The freedom one is a major point that really needs to be delivered in a way that is easier to understand. Government is not nearly as oppressive as the overlords of unregulated capitalism.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 04:46:09 AM by RideTheGlide »
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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #347 on: March 30, 2019, 08:49:27 AM »
Very articulate, very reasonable. But IMO his style of communication is too abstract and intellectual for the majority, I fear. His words just wash over you. And the only things from that interview that will stick with the average voter will be: Butt-cheek; transgender toilets, too young, blah blah blah... what was that about “freedom to” vs. “freedom from” - what the hell is he talking about?”. So, yes, reasonable and educated people will feel comfortable with this kind of dialogue, but I think to the MAGA masses, this is just another slick PC politician with a funny name who doesn’t understand what matters to them.

IMO the Democrats need to find someone who can communicate with people as simply as Trump does. And who doesn’t see transgender toilets as the most important issue facing the world right now. Sadly, this guy isn’t that person. AOC does better.

It seems that there is so little real political talent on the world stage right now - not just in the US, but across the free world. I guess there are easier ways to become rich and influential these days than be a politician.

I didn't find him slick at all.  Pretty well the opposite.  Not a lot of ego showing.  I think a lot of people (who might potentially vote Dem) would relate to him.  Very midwestern.  Lives in the town he grew up in.  The MAGA group will vote for Trump.  That has to be considered a foregone conclusion.  Cortez won't be running.  She can't.  I basically like her but I would prefer a candidate who did not brand themselves socialist (any flavor, Bernie included).  I know the party sees that as a positive right now but it is not.

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #348 on: March 30, 2019, 09:17:55 AM »
As stated by RideTheGlide- "Government is not nearly as oppressive as the overlords of unregulated capitalism."

Victims of Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and other similar government leaders would disagree.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 09:26:58 AM by Seafarer »

Weasels wake

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #349 on: March 30, 2019, 10:17:19 AM »
As stated by RideTheGlide- "Government is not nearly as oppressive as the overlords of unregulated capitalism."

Victims of Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and other similar government leaders would disagree.
Agreed.
"overlords of unregulated capitalism", seriously?
Who would those "overlords" be?  Our corporations who are taxed higher than corporations in all other countries?
And if it's "unregulated", then those "overlords" are doing a terrible job at regulating it.
It's like saying 'I'm in favor of capitalism, I just don't like our capitalism', even though our country is to most popular country in the world, due to our economy, that people are dying to get to.
That mud doesn't stick.
It takes a quiver to do that.

Califoilia

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #350 on: March 30, 2019, 10:58:59 AM »
Would be an outstanding contrast to Trump on a debate stage.
It would be futile, Trump doesn't debate, he fabricates, exaggerates, and placates to the lowest common denominator of the voting public if you hadn't noticed from the last time.

Whomever could speak intelligently for five minutes, be 100% correct in what s/he was saying, and Trump's only respond need be....

...to get a standing ovation from his base, and then go on with some superlative laced gibberish that means nothing, but that his throng eat up like he's throwing out candy to all of them.

It's sad, but we've finally succumbed to political debates that more resemble a gladiator forum battle, than an educated, and intellectual discussion of the topics. "Henny Penny" politics is the name of the game now, and someone who's "Very bright, articulate and level headed" don't stand a chance...unless he's "bright" enough to throw that all out the window, and just jump in the pig pen, get dirty, and out crap-mouth the king of it.  >:(
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 11:00:35 AM by SanoSlatchSup »
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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #351 on: March 30, 2019, 12:03:11 PM »
Would be an outstanding contrast to Trump on a debate stage.
It would be futile, Trump doesn't debate, he fabricates, exaggerates, and placates to the lowest common denominator of the voting public if you hadn't noticed from the last time.

Whomever could speak intelligently for five minutes, be 100% correct in what s/he was saying, and Trump's only respond need be....

...to get a standing ovation from his base, and then go on with some superlative laced gibberish that means nothing, but that his throng eat up like he's throwing out candy to all of them.

It's sad, but we've finally succumbed to political debates that more resemble a gladiator forum battle, than an educated, and intellectual discussion of the topics. "Henny Penny" politics is the name of the game now, and someone who's "Very bright, articulate and level headed" don't stand a chance...unless he's "bright" enough to throw that all out the window, and just jump in the pig pen, get dirty, and out crap-mouth the king of it.  >:(

Trump has his base.  He can't win with just his base.  Getting down in the muck won't work.  Most people are tired of it now.  Talk straight, make sense, don't get rattled by gibberish.  We ran an ill chosen candidate last time.  I voted for her and will vote for any of this group but we will still need the margin to win as well and we can't scare them home with "socialism" and fringe policy.

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #352 on: March 30, 2019, 01:03:48 PM »
Unfortunately, our elections are now simply sound bites, and name-recognition popularity contests, that someone like Buttigieg has no more of a chance of winning than if you or I running. Heck, his name alone will give Trump, and his dimwitted followers pages of memes, and Twitter fodder that will overshadow any intellectual rebuke Pete (or most anyone else) will attempt to counter with.

For instance, I'm 50 miles from the SoCal "southern border" where all of these "illegal aliens are pouring in" if you listen to my neighbors, and city folk in general, and all we need is a wall to quell the flow. None of them want to hear that the "caravaners" are coming here seeking asylum at legal ports of entry. Nope, they're all storming the border past all of the poor helpless Border Patrol agents, and heading to the first hospital, welfare office, food bank, and shelter they can get to for all of the free incentives the "liberals" have sent up for them.

Actual facts, data, and attempted intelligent discussion fall on deaf ears with them...because Trump told them these YUGE caravans are upsetting their daily life - even though they couldn't identify an "illegal alien" if they were standing next to one - so we must spend billions of dollars on a useless wall...now that Mexico is no longer going to pay for it like they were told it would a couple years ago. F'n amazing the stupidity...it's embarrassing actually.  :-[
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RideTheGlide

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #353 on: March 30, 2019, 01:30:17 PM »
As stated by RideTheGlide- "Government is not nearly as oppressive as the overlords of unregulated capitalism."

Victims of Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and other similar government leaders would disagree.

I should have qualified that better; I meant our government. I meant more government controls over capitalism like we used to have when nearly everyone working full time could afford to pay rent, buy groceries and take a vacation every now and then.
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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #354 on: March 30, 2019, 02:44:03 PM »
his name alone will give Trump, and his dimwitted followers pages of memes, and Twitter fodder that will overshadow any intellectual rebuke Pete (or most anyone else) will attempt to counter with.

He tried that with Barack Hussein Obama, another clear worded intellectual who was a public unknown a few years before his election.  He won't convert your neighbors.  Neither will the others. 

Rider

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #355 on: March 30, 2019, 05:51:17 PM »
Can we just be honest here. The Dem’s have nobody who can really challenge Trump for 2020. The main street media did Trump a HUGE favor. MSNBC, CNN, NBC. Sorry, their ratings are in the toilet. Might be time for you’all to just chill and HOPE for 2024.....

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #356 on: March 30, 2019, 06:18:29 PM »
some things are best handled by fair democratically elected government--(and i hope we all still aspire to fair legit democratic elections, accessible easily to all americans)---and better not handled by private profit-motivated entities--i certainly prefer that stuff like war and our military, and imprisonment, criminal justice and law enforcement--all be handled by our elected government, and not by profit-motivated corporate entities---corporate "privatized, for-profit army"?? no thanks

but then i'd include health care, education (public schools), and our civil courts, too

but i believe in capitalism and capital markets, which, if reasonably regulated, provide best path to business development and long-term growth--for cars and houses and shoes and food and computers and all the rest of the stuff our amazing economy does

kinda hydrid---but, yeah, totally prefer good democratically elected government look after certain shit--stuff business profiteers' "invisible hand" cant be trusted with

not sure how Stalin and Hitler figure in to good well regulated democratic capitalism---i like to think that's what we are all about......i mean, Hitler??? really?? like that's what we'll face if we stop letting our energy policy be owned by the fossil fuel industry??   
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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #357 on: March 30, 2019, 07:04:01 PM »
eastbound..... I still detect some deep seeded bitterness in your post. Are you, or have you ever been, a member of the......

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #358 on: March 30, 2019, 11:23:32 PM »
I saw Pete Buttigieg interviewed last night.  He needs to be added to the list.  Very bright, articulate and level headed.  Rhodes Scholar at Oxford and Harvard Undergrad.  Six languages.  Served in Afghanistan.  37 YO.  He currently serves as the chair of the “Automation and the Impacts on America’s Cities” task force at the United States Conference of Mayors.  Would be an outstanding contrast to Trump on a debate stage.   Could be very interesting.  Have a look
I watched most/some/part of it.
isn't there some guy every time who somehow seems to make some sense...……..and then something happens..
Jerry, Pat, Ross, Ralph, Donald, Thomas...?
Its barely Spring '19.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 11:26:00 PM by lucabrasi »

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #359 on: March 31, 2019, 02:17:30 AM »
some things are best handled by fair democratically elected government--(and i hope we all still aspire to fair legit democratic elections, accessible easily to all americans)---and better not handled by private profit-motivated entities--i certainly prefer that stuff like war and our military, and imprisonment, criminal justice and law enforcement--all be handled by our elected government, and not by profit-motivated corporate entities---corporate "privatized, for-profit army"?? no thanks

but then i'd include health care, education (public schools), and our civil courts, too

but i believe in capitalism and capital markets, which, if reasonably regulated, provide best path to business development and long-term growth--for cars and houses and shoes and food and computers and all the rest of the stuff our amazing economy does

kinda hydrid---but, yeah, totally prefer good democratically elected government look after certain shit--stuff business profiteers' "invisible hand" cant be trusted with

not sure how Stalin and Hitler figure in to good well regulated democratic capitalism---i like to think that's what we are all about......i mean, Hitler??? really?? like that's what we'll face if we stop letting our energy policy be owned by the fossil fuel industry??

East,

I agree with most of that.  Here is my issue.  Of your list, Military, Courts, Public Schools, Prisons (mixed) and many more are already government tended with no socialist labeling.  Health and Higher Ed raise more debate but they certainly do not require self-labeling as Socialist.  When you brand yourself socialist the question of further intention is immediately present and many individuals will not wait for or trust the answer. 

 


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