Poll

This is a uniquely informed and diverse group to survey on any question, most definitely this one.  At this point, for whom would you cast your ballot?

Trump
19 (46.3%)
Biden
9 (22%)
Sanders
8 (19.5%)
Booker
4 (9.8%)
Klobuchar
1 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: March 21, 2019, 04:39:47 PM

Author Topic: 2020 Vision  (Read 124089 times)

Subber

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #255 on: March 07, 2019, 12:23:09 PM »
A sobering statistic.

The question is, why is the Price so high?
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spirit4earth

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #256 on: March 07, 2019, 12:32:19 PM »
My opposition to illegal immigration is based on the idea that we have lots of legal citizens who are poor,  and a constant flood coming in keeps labor rates down.   How does this help the poor citizens?  As far as the idea that illegals are doing the jobs that Americans aren't willing to do;  I see it more like they are doing the jobs that Americans who get paid not to work are not willing to do. 

We have a safety net that many people need,  also many people take advantage and cheat it.  From my own personal experience (friends, family members, and a view of how the system works in the cities),  I put this ratio at 50/50.   

Of course I come from a Lutheran upbringing where hard work is the #1 quality to judge a person by.  JP

I doubt very much that those people who are getting government assistance would, were the money to disappear, work in the slaughterhouses, work in the fields for 12 hours every day, clean motels and rich people’s houses, etc etc, and all for $7.25 an hour.  Picture the US economy if all illegal immigrants were to stop working.
As for poor US citizens working or not working, many of us ARE working, but for shit wages in an economy/country that really doesn’t give a damn about the poor.  Why can’t trump’s fantasy 5 billion go towards actually helping people in this country?

spirit4earth

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #257 on: March 07, 2019, 12:33:25 PM »

Califoilia

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #258 on: March 07, 2019, 01:33:05 PM »
Why can’t trump’s fantasy 5 billion go towards actually helping people in this country?
Because that was never his goal...pandering to the lowest common denominator's prejudicial fears was his only true, underlying campaign promise.

Pretending to be able to make the boogyman in the closet go away was going to make everything "great again", was probably one of the greatest marketing campaigns he (or anyone else for that matter) has ever run.

However, finding enough of those dumb enough to actually buy into the blatant scam was the really, incredibly unbelievable part...that even Trump himself never truly expected. :o ??? Smh...
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jpeter

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #259 on: March 07, 2019, 01:38:09 PM »
My opposition to illegal immigration is based on the idea that we have lots of legal citizens who are poor,  and a constant flood coming in keeps labor rates down.   How does this help the poor citizens?  As far as the idea that illegals are doing the jobs that Americans aren't willing to do;  I see it more like they are doing the jobs that Americans who get paid not to work are not willing to do. 

We have a safety net that many people need,  also many people take advantage and cheat it.  From my own personal experience (friends, family members, and a view of how the system works in the cities),  I put this ratio at 50/50.   

Of course I come from a Lutheran upbringing where hard work is the #1 quality to judge a person by.  JP

I doubt very much that those people who are getting government assistance would, were the money to disappear, work in the slaughterhouses, work in the fields for 12 hours every day, clean motels and rich people’s houses, etc etc, and all for $7.25 an hour.  Picture the US economy if all illegal immigrants were to stop working.
As for poor US citizens working or not working, many of us ARE working, but for shit wages in an economy/country that really doesn’t give a damn about the poor.  Why can’t trump’s fantasy 5 billion go towards actually helping people in this country?

If immigration was controlled, the wage would be higher than the $7.25 you speak of.   

RideTheGlide

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #260 on: March 07, 2019, 01:58:38 PM »
If immigration was controlled, the wage would be higher than the $7.25 you speak of.

What do you base this on? Businesses wouldn't be greedy if we had tighter controls on immigration? How does that work?
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eastbound

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #261 on: March 07, 2019, 02:25:04 PM »
yep and something like 65% of all US personal bankruptcies are a result of medical bills

not lazy cheating folk at all--just unlucky folk who had a family member get sick

and many of them had insurance that proved to be crap when the shit hit the fan
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Quickbeam

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #262 on: March 07, 2019, 03:21:25 PM »
A sobering statistic.


That is more than sobering. It’s scandalous!

My wife and I were out for dinner last night with another couple and somehow the conversation got onto the U.S. health care system. Our friends told us the story about a friend of theirs who lived in the U.S. and needed a kidney transplant (I’m not 100% sure on this, but I think it was a kidney transplant). In any case, he was told he needed the operation to live. When he looked at the costs, both he and his wife realized they could only afford the after care for two years. After that they had no way to pay for the drugs, etc. that would be needed. He therefore refused the operation and has since passed away.

So very sad. No one should lose their life because they can't afford medical care.
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Rider

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #263 on: March 07, 2019, 04:46:40 PM »
Wow!!!   My BS detector just exploded. Damn...... Quick, got any boards for sale?

Quickbeam

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #264 on: March 07, 2019, 04:52:18 PM »
Wow!!!   My BS detector just exploded. Damn...... Quick, got any boards for sale?

Not B.S., at least not as far as I know. And I do recall our friends telling us about this when the couple was going through all this. So I can’t say for absolute certain it happened, as I don’t know the person (couple) it happened to. But I’ve known the couple who told us about it for a very long time, and they would not make a story up. It’s always possible they are somehow mistaken, that I can’t say for sure. But I can say they would not make it up.
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Rider

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #265 on: March 07, 2019, 05:26:37 PM »
So it went down like this.... Honey, I love you so much. I’ll get the operation and we’ll have two wonderful years together. OK dear, if you think we can’t afford it maybe only one year. Yes darling, we do have a little credit card debt. OK OK OK.you’re right honey, we just can’t afford me.

surf4food

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #266 on: March 07, 2019, 06:00:04 PM »
So it went down like this.... Honey, I love you so much. I’ll get the operation and we’ll have two wonderful years together. OK dear, if you think we can’t afford it maybe only one year. Yes darling, we do have a little credit card debt. OK OK OK.you’re right honey, we just can’t afford me.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but from what I gathered, the guy opted not to do the surgery at all because of the debt that would follow and as a result passed away.  Doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

Quickbeam

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #267 on: March 07, 2019, 06:06:02 PM »
So it went down like this.... Honey, I love you so much. I’ll get the operation and we’ll have two wonderful years together. OK dear, if you think we can’t afford it maybe only one year. Yes darling, we do have a little credit card debt. OK OK OK.you’re right honey, we just can’t afford me.

O.K. Rider, I think I get it now. You’re not disputing that health care costs could bankrupt someone or leave them with massive debt. You’re disputing that anyone would choose to forfeit their life in order for their family to avoid going bankrupt. Well, I respectfully disagree. I could see a scenario where that could happen. But I suppose the real point is, that no one, ever, should have to choose between the two.
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spirit4earth

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #268 on: March 07, 2019, 06:14:46 PM »
So it went down like this.... Honey, I love you so much. I’ll get the operation and we’ll have two wonderful years together. OK dear, if you think we can’t afford it maybe only one year. Yes darling, we do have a little credit card debt. OK OK OK.you’re right honey, we just can’t afford me.

You’re being deliberately obtuse and confrontational. 

jpeter

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #269 on: March 07, 2019, 06:25:28 PM »
If immigration was controlled, the wage would be higher than the $7.25 you speak of.

What do you base this on? Businesses wouldn't be greedy if we had tighter controls on immigration? How does that work?

Shortage or workers drives up the labor price.  It's not out of generosity that a higher wage is paid.  Basic economics.   

 


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