2020 Vision

[Area 10]

Oops... wonder who Trump will blame this one on?

“The US trade gap with the rest of the world jumped to a 10-year high of $621bn (£472.5bn) last year”.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47472282

[SUP Leave]

Area 10, the post you made above explaining the system is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. The model you describe is pretty much like the educational system in the US. Which is what I have always assumed the NHS is without looking into it.

The US has a lot of geographic and cultural regions. The level of service would vary greatly in an NHS. If some politician came out with a single payer system that allowed for broad choice of providers. I.e. a voucher you can add cash or supplemental insurance to, they could convince me.

It is not going to change how long we live very much, but could simplify things a bit? If they make addiction and mental health services a big part of it, and I mean building big Mental Health Service facilities (fenced and unfenced) I might write a check.

[Admin]

Oops... wonder who Trump will blame this one on?

“The US trade gap with the rest of the world jumped to a 10-year high of $621bn (£472.5bn) last year”.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47472282

You have to love the Trump tweet in that link: "....I am a Tariff Man. When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our Nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power. We are right now taking in $billions in Tariffs. MAKE AMERICA RICH AGAIN"

Do you think he knows that it is only American's that pay his tariffs?  Possibly it is something else.  Which leads me to another Trump favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHN4uY27tM

[Area 10]

Fascinating article on the rise of populist rhetoric. It seems that Trump has a way to go yet before he matches some other world leaders. Maybe we’ll find it ramped up as his failures to deliver what he promised become ever more obvious.

I found it surprising that populism is more common amongst the left in some geographical regions, and the right in others.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/mar/06/revealed-the-rise-and-rise-of-populist-rhetoric

[Admin]

Maybe we’ll find it ramped up as his failures to deliver what he promised become ever more obvious.

The Trump folks are boasting about the economy but that is already tanking.  No real surprises there.  Add 2 Trillion to the debt with nonsensical tax breaks and you should get a boost.  You would hope that it would last more than a quarter though.  GDP hit 4.2, then fell to 3.4, then 2.7, and now we are looking at 1.5.  That is dismal.  And yet, Trump is still quoting his 4.2 figure from June .  Retail sales were down 1.2% in the all important December (thanks for that shutdown, stable genius) which is the worst since 2009.

The Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta updated its December quarter GDPNow growth rate forecast based on December retail sales and inventories and the estimate took a big hit, falling from 2.7% to 1.5%. This would be a substantial decrease from 4.2% in the June quarter and 3.4% in the September quarter. While the official number may not be as low as 1.5%, it appears certain that the economy isn’t achieving Trump’s statement of, “I see no reason why we don’t go to 4%, 5% and even 6%.”

[eastbound]

given his performance in the cpac speech, who knows what Trump will produce, as the random dumb economic seeds he's he and the repubs have planted, continue to bear ugly fruit such as already? we have all seen this week's exploding actual "record" current trade and fiscal deficits, right? remember trump the self-anointed "tariff man", who was going to "fix the trade deficit"---it's exploded, to all-time record---nice work---as predicted by anyone who's taken econ 101--this alone could whack 1% off of gd

check your paycheck....and your tax refund this year---atta go---can we now say that the "middle class tax cuts" moniker was a bald lie?

thank god we didnt take them at their word re pre-existing conditions

scary that this guy is US pres---equally scary that there's but a peep out of the repubs

the moronic criminal shit he planted is bearing ugly fruit that will only get uglier---when, finally, the repubs stop supporting this moron, he may get cra cra on us

the cpac speech was alarming---i am appalled there is no uproar on the repub side of the aisle---you guys see that?? that's our president....youre actually ok with this? the guy is a certifiable freak..........

this guy is scary.............

[Area 10]

Yeah but his voters can understand what he says. I suspect that they usually can’t understand politician’s speeches. And he keeps it entertaining. The rest of the political class needs to learn a thing from this (but this does NOT mean emulate it). After all, it looks like a huge proportion of the Zoners here still support Trump. I think it’s *because* of this, not despite it.

To me he just seems like the loud-mouthed chip-on-the-shoulder guy at a neighbour’s BBQ that you’d spend the whole afternoon trying to avoid. But maybe those are his core supporters. And those who want a race war, of course.

https://youtu.be/g5HHZI_pe3w

[jpeter]

Wouldn't mind if Obama was my neighbor,  but not happy from his presidency.

Wouldn't want Hillary as my neighbor or president.

Wouldn't want an Ahole like Trump as my neighbor,  but as president he is at least pushing back some against the globalist and socialists.  It pains me to hear him speak and twitter,  but I am in agreement with him 100% on immigration. 
I was not motivated enough to vote in the Trump/Hillary election.  The massive attempt to get Trump out of office instead of working for some better good (and the CT gov race)  did motivate me to vote in the last election.

FWIW, the only well known politician I have ever agreed with in modern time is Ron Paul.

JP

[Area 10]

Ok, thanks for that insight. It’s an interesting approach to want a guy running the country that you wouldn’t want as a neighbour. But if you are getting what you voted for then lucky for you.

In the UK, the people who voted to leave the European Union are overwhelmingly those who are going to suffer most economically from it. Some are going to lose their jobs, and there will be healthcare reductions, less policing, school closures etc. But they still voted for it anyway and are very pleased with their choice. And indeed, as more and more evidence comes out about the hardships they are going to face, they are actually becoming more firm in their opinion that they have done the right thing.

I had always assumed that people would vote principally according to their own financial best interests. But Trump and Brexit are challenging that opinion in my mind.

[Wetstuff]

I'll leave the other stuff ... but SupLeave made a good point in his post; "The US has a lot of geographic and cultural regions. The level of service would vary greatly in an NHS." It would, most likely if you look at the way many states apply anything that is a 'grant-to-states' program vs. a nationally administrated program. 

My Medicare is nearly a duplicate of the Canadian system I was under living in Toronto.  If I had selected an 'Advantage' program it would be a near match.  Mostly, it's pretty painless for geezers. My primary says Medicare pays better than insurance companies...

One of my inlaws worked his whole life for the Panama Canal Company - the docs throw out the Red Carpet for him, they appear to reduce no charges and pay very quickly. 

Jim

[surfinJ]

I think that the fear of immigration that currents through most places is a fear of the ‘other’.  In the UK this was the idea, excuse me, that the ‘pakis’ would be gone. Instead it is the hard working no problem causing Polish waiters and cleaners that won’t be around to help.

In my homeland as well, most who want the wall have probably never had any contact with a southern immigrant, leagal or not. And if these others were to be banished tomorrow there won’t be any noticeable improvement to daily life.

Think of us as we paddle to a peak and start getting vibes before we even catch a wave.

And let me say, humain treatment of the fellow man, women and child as far as basic needs goes, ie shelter food medical care and education is not socialism.
It is called social democracy.

I’ve had the fortune to finish high on the eco ladder and most of the Europeans I work with are conservatives. There is a marked difference when talking of the above mentioned needs. Over here there is a feeling of solidarity in the society. 
America more resembles a winner take all Ponzi scheme.

I have to regularly try to explain my homeland to them. It’s hard to explain why the above mentioned list does not pass as human rights.
But having a gun does.


At the end of the day I would rather just paddle out with any and all of you then talk about this  So let’s leave any offenses possibly triggered, in this thread. 

[eastbound]

agreed re that--best kept in this specified thread, and kept civil here, if possible----i know some may find my politics offensive, but i hope not to personally insult anyone.

i dont feel insulted, but that may be because those who differ may not see fit to waste time responding to me--which is totally fine, too.

[RideTheGlide]

Maybe we’ll find it ramped up as his failures to deliver what he promised become ever more obvious.

The Trump folks are boasting about the economy but that is already tanking.  No real surprises there.  Add 2 Trillion to the debt with nonsensical tax breaks and you should get a boost.  You would hope that it would last more than a quarter though.  GDP hit 4.2, then fell to 3.4, then 2.7, and now we are looking at 1.5.  That is dismal.  And yet, Trump is still quoting his 4.2 figure from June .  Retail sales were down 1.2% in the all important December (thanks for that shutdown, stable genius) which is the worst since 2009.

The Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta updated its December quarter GDPNow growth rate forecast based on December retail sales and inventories and the estimate took a big hit, falling from 2.7% to 1.5%. This would be a substantial decrease from 4.2% in the June quarter and 3.4% in the September quarter. While the official number may not be as low as 1.5%, it appears certain that the economy isn’t achieving Trump’s statement of, “I see no reason why we don’t go to 4%, 5% and even 6%.”

Most of the things he claims credit for are trends he didn't screw up. Economic indicators and unemployment charts are continuations of the trajectory the graph was already on.

[jpeter]

My opposition to illegal immigration is based on the idea that we have lots of legal citizens who are poor,  and a constant flood coming in keeps labor rates down.   How does this help the poor citizens?  As far as the idea that illegals are doing the jobs that Americans aren't willing to do;  I see it more like they are doing the jobs that Americans who get paid not to work are not willing to do. 

We have a safety net that many people need,  also many people take advantage and cheat it.  From my own personal experience (friends, family members, and a view of how the system works in the cities),  I put this ratio at 50/50.   

Of course I come from a Lutheran upbringing where hard work is the #1 quality to judge a person by.  JP

[RideTheGlide]

A sobering statistic.