Poll

This is a uniquely informed and diverse group to survey on any question, most definitely this one.  At this point, for whom would you cast your ballot?

Trump
19 (46.3%)
Biden
9 (22%)
Sanders
8 (19.5%)
Booker
4 (9.8%)
Klobuchar
1 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: March 21, 2019, 04:39:47 PM

Author Topic: 2020 Vision  (Read 32197 times)

PonoBill

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #780 on: May 05, 2019, 10:32:55 AM »
Yup. I don't "believe" in capitalism and the free market, I THINK it's the best system we've come up with to suit the self interest of humanity, but it has a lot of flaws and needs careful management to avoid destruction of the society and infrastructure that supports and enables it to thrive. One way or another a lot of that management has to come under the control of government--local, state or federal--and that always means waste, inefficiency and corruption on a rapidly increasing scale as control moves towards the feds. It's inevitable, the opportunities are always present, just like market opportunities and evolutionary niches. And the opportunities will be seized.

It's a delicate balance, and bomb-throwers like Trump cause immense harm along with the small amount of good they might do. People counting the current administration as effective because of some blips in economic measure that no rational human would attribute to a single individual or a government policy simply astonish me.

I too will vote for any carbon-based lifeform that removes that creature from office. And then we'll have to deal with the fact that some idiot thinks they have a mandate when really any electable idiot would do.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 10:35:35 AM by PonoBill »
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Admin

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #781 on: May 05, 2019, 11:18:04 AM »
Trump tweet from this morning:

"For 10 months, China has been paying Tariffs to the USA of 25% on 50 Billion Dollars of High Tech, and 10% on 200 Billion Dollars of other goods. These payments are partially responsible for our great economic results. The 10% will go up to 25% on Friday. 325 Billions Dollars of additional goods sent to us by China remain untaxed, but will be shortly, at a rate of 25%. The Tariffs paid to the USA have had little impact on product cost, mostly borne by China. The Trade Deal with China continues, but too slowly, as they attempt to renegotiate. No!"

China pays nothing, of course.  Just another trump lie.  This is a straight tax on US business. 

Area 10

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #782 on: May 05, 2019, 12:58:19 PM »
Wow, I thought we were in a bad state politically, in the UK. But Iím rapidly coming to the conclusion that you guys are totally screwed. You all want change, and you apparently want it badly. But at the same time you are unwilling to consider anything that represents actual change.
From what you've been writing, seems to me that you had already came to that conclusion a couple of years ago.
Also we definitely got political change in 2016, however we probably won't get any change in 2020.
You got change? What changed? You just got a version of the same, but with bells on. If Trump has done anything, it is just to try to undo what Obama did, and take you back, not forward. A vote for Trump is a vote for the status quo. His genius has been in convincing his supporters that he is something other than another money-grabbing corrupt super-rich white guy who couldnít give a ratís ass about the average Joe. I mean, why should he?

RideTheGlide

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #783 on: May 05, 2019, 01:28:41 PM »
Trump tweet from this morning:

"For 10 months, China has been paying Tariffs to the USA of 25% on 50 Billion Dollars of High Tech, and 10% on 200 Billion Dollars of other goods. These payments are partially responsible for our great economic results. The 10% will go up to 25% on Friday. 325 Billions Dollars of additional goods sent to us by China remain untaxed, but will be shortly, at a rate of 25%. The Tariffs paid to the USA have had little impact on product cost, mostly borne by China. The Trade Deal with China continues, but too slowly, as they attempt to renegotiate. No!"

China pays nothing, of course.  Just another trump lie.  This is a straight tax on US business.
Price disparity is so bad that even with the tariff and shipping, goods from China are still usually cheaper than domestic suppliers, so the businesses really don't have a choice. I don't expect them to just eat that cost; it's going to be passed on to US consumers.

Another aspect of the tariff is the push back on US agricultural goods. With the market drying up with China going elsewhere, we are having to subsidize the farmers, adding the deficit, which increases the debt. The largest foreign holder of US debt is China. So in essence we are borrowing money from China to help pay for what it is costing to implement a tariff on imports from China.

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Weasels wake

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #784 on: May 08, 2019, 11:12:39 AM »
Wow, I thought we were in a bad state politically, in the UK. But Iím rapidly coming to the conclusion that you guys are totally screwed. You all want change, and you apparently want it badly. But at the same time you are unwilling to consider anything that represents actual change.
From what you've been writing, seems to me that you had already came to that conclusion a couple of years ago.
Also we definitely got political change in 2016, however we probably won't get any change in 2020.
You got change? What changed? You just got a version of the same, but with bells on. If Trump has done anything, it is just to try to undo what Obama did, and take you back, not forward. A vote for Trump is a vote for the status quo. His genius has been in convincing his supporters that he is something other than another money-grabbing corrupt super-rich white guy who couldnít give a ratís ass about the average Joe. I mean, why should he?
Alrightythen, it appears that you were no more impressed with the Obama administration than you are with the Trump administration.
Aren't you glad that you don't live here.
This website is probably as close to the U.S. as you are willing to go.
It takes a quiver to do that.

Area 10

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #785 on: May 08, 2019, 11:32:02 AM »
Weasel - on the contrary, I work very closely with US colleagues, and visit quite regularly. Indeed, at one time I considered working and living in the US. My view is that the US is a really magnificent country, and I am extremely pleased that it is the US that has been the worldís predominant superpower for decades. But that is also why now I mourn you not having a leader who can reach out beyond his own narrow supporter-base.

My own view was that Obama was a well-intentioned, honest and decent man who was substantially hobbled at home, by his opponents, in terms of what he could achieve for the common man. Like many politicians, Iím sure things didnít necessarily turn out the way he wanted, but I think his motives were largely decent and honest, unlike Trump. Obama was a very well-respected figure on the world stage, and increased the international power and influence of the US significantly because of that.

Whereas Trump must be the most widely derided president that the US has ever had, unfortunately. He is isolating the US on the world stage, and thus decreasing US international influence. Indeed, he is encouraging other countries to form their own alliances independent from the US. This will in fact now be necessary to tackle such big issues as climate change, where Trump has taken a position so far from any kind of common sense that no-one outside the US is listening to him. Thatís a great shame IMO, both for the US and the rest of the world.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 11:39:14 AM by Area 10 »