Poll

This is a uniquely informed and diverse group to survey on any question, most definitely this one.  At this point, for whom would you cast your ballot?

Trump
19 (46.3%)
Biden
9 (22%)
Sanders
8 (19.5%)
Booker
4 (9.8%)
Klobuchar
1 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Voting closed: March 21, 2019, 04:39:47 PM

Author Topic: 2020 Vision  (Read 32737 times)

Admin

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2019, 02:30:14 AM »
If Schultz actually runs as an independent Trump could be a two-term president

I've already switched to Peet's. 

NEplay

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2019, 02:59:28 AM »
I am a progressive liberal and I would vote for Charlie Baker in a minute. D from the NRA, did nothing to hinder Cannabis implementation laws in Massachusetts(my business) voted for overwhelming by the mass constituents. Can you imagine having a politicians who do what the voters want? I have met Charlies Baker and he thinks that Trump and the current Republican Senators are asshats redefining what it means to be an asshats. I, ummm, paraphrase his words of course. A large portion of his career was in healthcare in the public sector and he can get to a solution to healthcare for all.

Putting forth moderates is exactly what has done the Democratic party in. Gore, Kerry, Clinton = moderates. Walk down the middle of the street and you are going to get hit going both ways.

Repeal Citizens United.
Tax the Uber Wealthy like we have done to great success in the past.
Voter reform.
the coasts need to invest in the flyover states.  We are team and and if the the coastal progressives want their views in leadership they need to share.
Continue to address the sorry ignorance of historic and continuing institutional racism and misogyny in this country and the un-equal class system it has successfully created.
Start talking about eliminating tax exempt status for non-inclusive organizations. Hello Catholic Church. Women as equals or take it private fuckwads. Commonsense.
Radical solutions to climate change

No, not all of this is going to be addressed in this election but a lot can and should be talked about. Democrats can and will win doing it. 



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Bean

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2019, 08:33:23 AM »
Tax the Uber Wealthy like we have done to great success in the past...

Ocasio-Cortez (NY) had recently suggested the same, but her math simply does not work.  If we taxed the top .05% at 70% (as suggested) it would generate about $70b per year.  Unfortunatly, that sum does not even come close to closing the gap on the cost of universal health care, free college tuition, etc.



NEplay

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2019, 08:52:58 AM »
Agree Bean. That is one step. Maybe 70% for .05%, 50% for 5%? Corporate tax loopholes? Close'em. Inheritance tax? Bring it all the way back. Inheritance tax is not double taxation. One person earned the money and another person inherits the money who did not earn it and this is unearned income and needs to taxed at the highest rate possible. Military spending? All combined is there several trillion dollars. I don't know but it is a start.

Dynastic rule as defined by a vast wealth chasm between a very few haves and masses of have nots ends in revolution. I don't think this is alarmist. It is fact. Historically there are no counter examples.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 09:00:53 AM by NEplay »
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TallDude

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2019, 09:47:08 AM »
What's the motivation to strive to succeed if everything is handed to you free? My daughter worked her butt off in school so she could go to a good college. Good thing she got a scholarship, because we couldn't afford the schools she was applying for. She's a driven person, and earned it. I've been self-employed my whole life, and worked my butt off for 40 years straight. I never expected any handouts or free anything. Everything I have I earned.

Land of the Free means freedom of.... freedom to.... Not I want for free!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 09:50:24 AM by TallDude »

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2019, 10:11:05 AM »
Ocasio's plan in its current incarnation taxes income over 10 Million.  Only 16,000 hit that mark.  Bring that # down a bit and you are working with a boatload of cash.  That is income.  There is also talk about taxing existing wealth.  At this point it seems like the plans and #'s are loose.  Check if America will stomach that at all before taking too firm a position.  It is way far afield from capitalism but we have strayed pretty far from true, fair, capitalism on the other side as well. 

Subber

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2019, 10:12:30 AM »
I got it.

The Laird could run.

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Bean

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2019, 10:29:14 AM »
Agree Bean. That is one step.

No, I do not agree.

I'm simply pointing out that Ocasio-Cortez had clearly not properly whetted her position on her proposed tax policy.




RideTheGlide

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2019, 10:40:58 AM »
O It is way far afield from capitalism but we have strayed pretty far from true, fair, capitalism on the other side as well.

Kind of depends on what your definition of fair is as to whether or not there can be such a thing as true capitalism that's fair.
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Rider

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2019, 11:01:50 AM »
I like NEplay’s plan on taxing the rich. We should call it the”pono tax”. :)

PonoBill

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2019, 11:25:04 AM »
I assume Occasio-Cortez is being used to some degree as a stalking horse, to toss out somewhat extreme positions and see how the voting public responds. She can't run for President until she is 35, which rules out a 2020 bid.

I consistently see people forward redistribution schemes as a cure for everything. I support progressive taxation of wealth, especially inherited wealth. There's nothing free-market about inherited oligarchies. But the idea that health care, in the manner Americans currently consume it, can be paid for in that manner simply ignores the numbers. About 120,000,000 Americans pay federal income tax and the average tax collected is about $10,000. That's 1.2 trillion bux (the real number is 1.48 trillion, so I misplaced a few hundred billion somewhere). The top 1 percent of taxpayers are those who earn more than 450K per year and they pay about 40 percent of all taxes collected--about 480 billion. Double that tax burden (unlikely) and you'd raise total tax collected to about 1.7 Trillion. Americans spend 3.5 Trillion on healthcare. about 18 percent of our GDP. Check my math if you like--it's just back of the napkin stuff, but I think if you really want universal healthcare at the current level of service in the USA, then stump for universal medicare, and prepare to pay for it. I'm in favor of it, but it won't be cheap. By the way, the total military expenditure is 900 billion. No joy there either. Comparison of our spending to China and Russia's on a dollar to dollar basis is too stupid to even discuss.

This won't be a rational debate or a rational election. The Russians will continue to meddle and both parties have seen the effectiveness of social media in polarizing America. It's ugly now, imagine what it will be like in 2020.   

« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 11:54:56 AM by PonoBill »
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Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2019, 11:27:09 AM »
What's the motivation to strive to succeed if everything is handed to you free? My daughter worked her butt off in school so she could go to a good college. Good thing she got a scholarship, because we couldn't afford the schools she was applying for. She's a driven person, and earned it. I've been self-employed my whole life, and worked my butt off for 40 years straight. I never expected any handouts or free anything. Everything I have I earned.

Land of the Free means freedom of.... freedom to.... Not I want for free!

TallDude, these things like "free" healthcare or college aren't free. They're paid by taxes. It's not a handout.

Similar story: my father who was highly educated was also mentally ill, addicted, and poor. I went to some of the very best public schools, but when college came around I was screwed. There wasn't money for that, and when I tried to work for school, my father stole my earnings. The idea that working for these things works for some people, but not everybody. Deserving people are denied a good education because of circumstances beyond their control. Even if you go to night school and do that, you start off years behind your peers. It took me 15 years to get my BA, all because a situation I did not create. A few of those "free" things would have made my life much better. It would have changed my life. I know I would have had a different career.

I know there are people who might take advantage of the system, there are many who would not. I count myself in that category.
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RideTheGlide

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2019, 11:54:43 AM »
What's the motivation to strive to succeed if everything is handed to you free? My daughter worked her butt off in school so she could go to a good college. Good thing she got a scholarship, because we couldn't afford the schools she was applying for. She's a driven person, and earned it. I've been self-employed my whole life, and worked my butt off for 40 years straight. I never expected any handouts or free anything. Everything I have I earned.

Land of the Free means freedom of.... freedom to.... Not I want for free!

TallDude, these things like "free" healthcare or college aren't free. They're paid by taxes. It's not a handout.

Similar story: my father who was highly educated was also mentally ill, addicted, and poor. I went to some of the very best public schools, but when college came around I was screwed. There wasn't money for that, and when I tried to work for school, my father stole my earnings. The idea that working for these things works for some people, but not everybody. Deserving people are denied a good education because of circumstances beyond their control. Even if you go to night school and do that, you start off years behind your peers. It took me 15 years to get my BA, all because a situation I did not create. A few of those "free" things would have made my life much better. It would have changed my life. I know I would have had a different career.

I know there are people who might take advantage of the system, there are many who would not. I count myself in that category.
Very true; everyone does not have equal opportunities. Some of that is random, some is systemic. It's like the old adage that everyone can succeed if they work hard. There aren't enough slots open as you continue moving up. As you progress to better paying jobs, it's a triangle. There is only one desk in each McDonald's and that's just an example; there are also lots of cubes and only four corner offices in some large corporate settings.
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Chan

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2019, 12:16:36 PM »
The dems often have easy win positions that they can’t seem to clarify to close the deal.  The US health care reform issue should be an easy win for the left but they have struggled to explain their vision.  Obamacare, single payer, Medicare for all, these terms all leave room for confusion and easy political jabs.  The left needs to clarify the current costs of medical care (insurance+copays+taxes) vs a public cost scenario (taxes).  Public funded is the least expensive for almost everyone.  Quality and choice issues need to be addressed and accurately compared to most insured user’s current HMO systems which are far from admirable.  I’d like to hear that the new system would allow private, for profit, insurance, or supplemental insurance, to continue in some form.  Free college sounds like working folks funding a four-year Bacchus festival.  A promise to expand federal tuition assistance (providing full free tuition when appropriate) and increase funded vocational programs would likely receive more support.   
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 12:18:34 PM by Chan »

TallDude

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Re: 2020 Vision
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2019, 12:23:01 PM »
What's the motivation to strive to succeed if everything is handed to you free? My daughter worked her butt off in school so she could go to a good college. Good thing she got a scholarship, because we couldn't afford the schools she was applying for. She's a driven person, and earned it. I've been self-employed my whole life, and worked my butt off for 40 years straight. I never expected any handouts or free anything. Everything I have I earned.

Land of the Free means freedom of.... freedom to.... Not I want for free!

TallDude, these things like "free" healthcare or college aren't free. They're paid by taxes. It's not a handout.

If you didn't earn it, it's a handout. If you work very hard in high school and do all that you can, you can receive a college education that is paid for through endowments not taxes. If you kinda apply yourself in high school then don't expect anything. Being self employed I paid a lot of taxes. I own a home which I pay a lot of tax on. I don't make enough to pay for both of my kids college, let alone one kid. Because I make enough money, I don't get any benefit's as in free health care or college. People who make a lot less that I do, or people who do nothing, receive benefits from the taxes I pay. Those tax benefits like welfare and food stamps sustain a good percentage of our voting public. Those low or no income people can walk in or be wheeled into just about any ER and be cared for. Child birth, trama surgery, etc. and they will not pay a dime. I have a home and an income, so I pay full price for my care with no benefit from me paying taxes?
Is it the middle class that wants free health care? They are talking about taxing internet use and phone texting. Maybe that will help pay for middle class healthcare?

There are a ton of skilled labor jobs that pay very well, but young Americans  want a degree and an office job. They all deserve it I'm sure. We need more Plumbers, Carpenters, Welder's, Electronics Tech's, Machinist, etc.  but our youth is apparently better than that. A good friend of mine is an electrician who has worked by himself most of his career. He's owns a number of homes and a commercial building in Southern California. He doesn't even have an associates degree, but he smart about he business and works super hard. He's a tax payer and has never put his hand out but to shake someone else's hand.