Author Topic: Thin rails, not for surfing  (Read 10390 times)

TallDude

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2019, 02:14:12 PM »
Just to clarify what I imagine you might be looking for is you want a lower volume, feet closer to the water, kinda touring board that won't be used for surfing?
 Most of the touring boards have a thicker rail throughout the board giving them more volume. That volume helps it stay above water when it gets choppy and helps it maintain speed. The touring boards typically have a canoe shaped displacement hull that pushes the water to either side of the nose. That displacing of the water helps the board maintain a glide. Race boards have displacement hulls too, but they are narrower to reduce friction. The rocker or curve along the bottom from nose to tail is very flat which again improves glide.
 Boards like the 'Search' or 'Coastal Cruiser' have planing hulls like surfboards. The bottom of a planing hull is flat or has a concave from side to side. Basically the opposite of a canoe hull. These surfing type of hulls have more rocker to fit in the shape of the wave and help the board turn on a wave. They are designed to lift and plane on top of the water like a rock skipping across the water. To get to planing speed, they need a wave. In flatwater the hull acts like a snowplow pushing snow, but it's water it's pushing and not displacing. That limits glide and slows the board down. The extra rocker does add to stability that one of the reasons the all-arounder shaped boards are so easy to balance on and good for beginners. The Search and Coastal Cruiser boards have pointed noses which kinda displaces water but it's more for making the board stable on big outer reef waves. The thin rails allow you to bury the rail while turning on a wave, and make it easier tip the board from one rail to the other when turning on a wave. If this type of board had a flater rocker it would glide better, but become very unstable because there is so little volume out at the rails.
 Thick rails make a board more stable, but are not good for surfing.
For you a good place to start might be an all-arounder. They're shorter and easier to carry around. They are a little wider from nose to tail, but have thin rails. They have a little more rocker, but not a lot and they are affordable. I have fun on my 11'6 Naish Nalu both cruising the coast and surfing in the small stuff. Speaking of Naish, their new Nalu's have a recessed (lower) standing area, but slightly thicker rails to get added stability. Sunova has this on a few of their boards as well.

You could look for deals like this.
https://norfolk.craigslist.org/spo/d/virginia-beach-focus-smoothie-sup/6821923231.html

https://norfolk.craigslist.org/spo/d/virginia-beach-dolsey-sup-paddle-board/6798566001.html
 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:03:58 PM by TallDude »

spirit4earth

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2019, 04:33:03 PM »
What I noticed with the Search is that even though itís 4 11/16Ē thick, it thinned a lot near the rails.  Creek can clarify this.  Other boards Iíve used appeared to maintain their thickness right to the edge.

spirit, since it seems you really into the "Search" I'd suggest focusing on getting the "insider"
price of the board if you know what I mean.

That would be awesome!  I donít think either Rick or JimK can get a superfantastic price on one, though.  Any other insiders?

spirit4earth

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2019, 04:40:47 PM »
Just to clarify what I imagine you might be looking for is you want a lower volume, feet closer to the water, kinda touring board that won't be used for surfing?
 Most of the touring boards have a thicker rail throughout the board giving them more volume. That volume helps it stay above water when it gets choppy and helps it maintain speed. The touring boards typically have a canoe shaped displacement hull that pushes the water to either side of the nose. That displacing of the water helps the board maintain a glide. Race boards have displacement hulls too, but they are narrower to reduce friction. The rocker or curve along the bottom from nose to tail is very flat which again improves glide.
 Boards like the 'Search' or 'Coastal Cruiser' have planing hulls like surfboards. The bottom of a planing hull is flat or has a concave from side to side. Basically the opposite of a canoe hull. These surfing type of hulls have more rocker to fit in the shape of the wave and help the board turn on a wave. They are designed to lift and plane on top of the water like a rock skipping across the water. To get to planing speed, they need a wave. In flatwater the hull acts like a snowplow pushing snow, but it's water it's pushing and not displacing. That limits glide and slows the board down. The extra rocker does add to stability that one of the reasons the all-arounder shaped boards are so easy to balance on and good for beginners. The Search and Coastal Cruiser boards have pointed noses which kinda displaces water but it's more for making the board stable on big outer reef waves. The thin rails allow you to bury the rail while turning on a wave, and make it easier tip the board from one rail to the other when turning on a wave. If this type of board had a flater rocker it would glide better, but become very unstable because there is so little volume out at the rails.
 Thick rails make a board more stable, but are not good for surfing.
For you a good place to start might be an all-arounder. They're shorter and easier to carry around. They are a little wider from nose to tail, but have thin rails. They have a little more rocker, but not a lot and they are affordable. I have fun on my 11'6 Naish Nalu both cruising the coast and surfing in the small stuff. Speaking of Naish, their new Nalu's have a recessed (lower) standing area, but slightly thicker rails to get added stability. Sunova has this on a few of their boards as well.

You could look for deals like this.
https://norfolk.craigslist.org/spo/d/virginia-beach-focus-smoothie-sup/6821923231.html

https://norfolk.craigslist.org/spo/d/virginia-beach-dolsey-sup-paddle-board/6798566001.html

That Focus looks pretty good!  Are those good boards?
I paddled the Search up on the Cape when I visited Rick.  It wasnít super-fast, but I liked it a lot.  His is 14í, but a 12í might be more practical for me.  Although I will most likely never surf, it would be cool to have the option to be on tiny waves.  The Nalu is great.  I experienced that thanks to Bill, but it had to be left in Seattle when I returned east.

TallDude

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2019, 06:15:56 PM »
Where and when the Focus was made determines how good they are. That goes for a lot of the big companies. My friends shop use to be a Focus dealer. They weren't cheap popout's, and priced a little higher that the cheap off brands. There was a used one I borrowed to surf. It was built well and a bit on the heavy side. That Dolsey is a big time popout. There are containers and storage places full of them everywhere. 

rbgar

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2019, 03:41:51 AM »
Thereís a shop in Tampa that has/had a new Bark Excursion for cheap,
Urban Kia SUP  https://www.urbankai.com/shop/Standup-Paddleboards/Paddle-Boards/p/Surftech-Bark-120-Excursion-x23040688.htm
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 03:47:05 AM by rbgar »

mrbig

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2019, 05:00:53 AM »
Too funny. My first SUP was a 12' Dolsey. Flat water only as I was still proning. Heavy indestructible and was a great flat water beginner board.

My second board was a Focus 9' Smoothie. Stable and I learned to surf on it. Too short for real flat water exploring.

Best of luck!
Let it come to you..
404 Go Go 14'
404 V3 12'6"
SMIK 9'2" Hipster Mini Mal
SMIK 8'8" Short Mac Freo Rainbow Bridge
Infinity 8'5" RNB
SMIK 8'4" Hipster Twin
King's 8'2" Accelerator SharkBoy

robon

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2019, 06:51:21 AM »
Jimmy Lewis has a good sale on right now. The Mission has fairly thin rails and might be something that could work for you. The Rail is priced really well for a top shelf DW board that gets good reviews for doing alright in flat water.

http://jimmylewis.com/shop/mission/

mrbig

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2019, 07:10:37 AM »
Yep! Jimmy Lewis cruise control  would be a great fW paddler. 974 brand spanking new. Check out the sizes available. Maroon!

Three sizes still available. Ask the people who have seen you paddle what they think!!!

No affiliation! They make GuD boards though!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 07:15:16 AM by mrbig »
Let it come to you..
404 Go Go 14'
404 V3 12'6"
SMIK 9'2" Hipster Mini Mal
SMIK 8'8" Short Mac Freo Rainbow Bridge
Infinity 8'5" RNB
SMIK 8'4" Hipster Twin
King's 8'2" Accelerator SharkBoy

Scallop

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2019, 10:49:04 AM »
As mentioned it looks like you're looking for an all rounder type planing board as the Search is a planing board and typical displacement flat water boards typically are stout in the rails, something like that?

For a really reasonable cost this NSP has fairly low rails.This one is 10'11', 4 1/6 at it's thickest point in the middle, 186 liters. Paddles flat water fairly well and surfs small stuff with ease. I only paid $750 for it brand new in a local shop. It's a tad heavy but the 10'6 or 10' will be lighter and the cocomat layup is much lighter although more $. The Elements layup is fine for what it is if you're not too hard on your boards, unlike me.

Figured I'd throw it out there since I'm fond of low rails for flat water paddling myself. You can compare it to the Steeze right below, and the Surftech with full boxy 5 inch rails at the bottom.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 10:54:31 AM by Scallop »
Sunova Steeze 9'6"
NSP Coco Flax Allrounder 10'11"
NSP Elements Allrounder 10'11"
Surftech 10'6"

Area 10

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2019, 11:12:30 AM »
Thereís a shop in Tampa that has/had a new Bark Excursion for cheap,
Urban Kia SUP  https://www.urbankai.com/shop/Standup-Paddleboards/Paddle-Boards/p/Surftech-Bark-120-Excursion-x23040688.htm
Wow, if I was in the US Iíd buy that immediately!

Area 10

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2019, 11:23:07 AM »
Jimmy Lewis has a good sale on right now. The Mission has fairly thin rails and might be something that could work for you. The Rail is priced really well for a top shelf DW board that gets good reviews for doing alright in flat water.

http://jimmylewis.com/shop/mission/
I had a mission. Slow in flat water because of the big spoon nose and quite a bit of nose rocker. Didnít surf great either. But is is a lovely stable and well-made tourer if you arenít in a hurry, and it downwinds really well in a good blow. I preferred that to my 11x30 Cruise Control (which I also owned) for touring although the Cruise Control is much better to surf and is a great first board.

The Rail might be a bit specialised for the OP and is pretty thick in the rails in the middle. Nice board for more advanced ocean paddling though. And all the JL boards are made really well, and I find his graphics generally classy. They are the sort of boards you enjoy looking at as well as paddling, and I know it sounds wrong, but that does mean something to me. I donít like these boards (step forward Starboard) that look like they belong in a dumpster the day you buy them, and that the paint and graphics were done by a hyperactive 5 year-old.

TallDude

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2019, 11:39:36 AM »
The Rail might be a bit specialised for the OP and is pretty thick in the rails in the middle. Nice board for more advanced ocean paddling though. And all the JL boards are made really well, and I find his graphics generally classy. They are the sort of boards you enjoy looking at as well as paddling, and I know it sounds wrong, but that does mean something to me. I donít like these boards (step forward Starboard) that look like they belong in a dumpster the day you buy them, and that the paint and graphics were done by a hyperactive 5 year-old.
[/quote]
Once you add the deck all the way to the nose for the little doggy, the graphics don't really matter :D

robon

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2019, 12:01:18 PM »
Jimmy Lewis has a good sale on right now. The Mission has fairly thin rails and might be something that could work for you. The Rail is priced really well for a top shelf DW board that gets good reviews for doing alright in flat water.

http://jimmylewis.com/shop/mission/
I had a mission. Slow in flat water because of the big spoon nose and quite a bit of nose rocker. Didnít surf great either. But is is a lovely stable and well-made tourer if you arenít in a hurry, and it downwinds really well in a good blow. I preferred that to my 11x30 Cruise Control (which I also owned) for touring although the Cruise Control is much better to surf and is a great first board.

The Rail might be a bit specialised for the OP and is pretty thick in the rails in the middle. Nice board for more advanced ocean paddling though. And all the JL boards are made really well, and I find his graphics generally classy. They are the sort of boards you enjoy looking at as well as paddling, and I know it sounds wrong, but that does mean something to me. I donít like these boards (step forward Starboard) that look like they belong in a dumpster the day you buy them, and that the paint and graphics were done by a hyperactive 5 year-old.

I was thinking the Rail for myself:) although the Mission wouldíve a fun board to have for goofing around on.

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2019, 12:08:27 PM »
The Rail might be a bit specialised for the OP and is pretty thick in the rails in the middle. Nice board for more advanced ocean paddling though. And all the JL boards are made really well, and I find his graphics generally classy. They are the sort of boards you enjoy looking at as well as paddling, and I know it sounds wrong, but that does mean something to me. I donít like these boards (step forward Starboard) that look like they belong in a dumpster the day you buy them, and that the paint and graphics were done by a hyperactive 5 year-old.
Once you add the deck all the way to the nose for the little doggy, the graphics don't really matter :D
[/quote]
Iíd have to put deck pad on the bottom and rails of the board as well if I had a Starboard race board (and I did have one, an Ace, that was so ugly that my wife asked me to cover it in a tarpaulin when it was in the garden!).

A blue JL Rail 14x28 would make a beautiful all-conditions touring board though, if you donít carry heavy loads. The 14x28 Maliko would do the same for a light(ish) person. I like the way the ocean boards feel planted when you paddle them, and donít roll and get blown around by the wind.

spirit4earth

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Re: Thin rails, not for surfing
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2019, 12:48:09 PM »
I wish I were closer to a lot of used boards. 
Somewhere there is a Sunova for me, I think......somewhere....
Over the rainbow?

You all are a great help...thanks!