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Author Topic: Mast loosening while up and gliding  (Read 1944 times)

fatfish

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Mast loosening while up and gliding
« on: January 08, 2019, 09:37:06 AM »
So i have been at this for a few months so this could be user error.  I have a tuttle mast / mount in a JL hovercraft.  On a few occasions while up and gliding I hear a distinct crack coming from the board.  The first time i checked to make sure everything was ok and no damage.  The only thing i noticed was the screws were loose compared to when i assembled things.  It happened again this morning on a bigger wave, more so unnerved me, not sure if that changed the foil angle but seemed to be harder to get on foil again after it happened. 

Question: when you guys are assembling your board and mast, are you tightening the crap out of it?  Or are you tightening it and then shifting the mast around and then tightening again.  Just wonder if there is a technique or tip to lock it in.  Or is there a chance the tuttle box has loosened?

thanks for the input.

WindJunkie

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 10:09:05 AM »
I had the same problem.  I would go back and forth between the screws until I got them as tight as I could.  Flip the board and rock the foil back and forth with one foot on the board.  Usually would crack loose and I would go back and tighten more.  Some other things I tried was silicone lube on the tuttle head and teflon tape on the screws.  At times I would carry a screwdriver with me in the water.  Switched to a track mount, problem solved.  Also gain a few inches on the track mount which was nice.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 01:14:38 PM »
Yeah, hate that sound. I had one foil that almost always did it, and LOUD. I gave up trying to prevent it.

fatfish

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2019, 03:26:27 PM »
thanks guys for confirming that I am not the only one with this problem.  Track mount, maybe in the future with a different board.  I guess for now I am going to crank the bolts, wonder if switching to allen head would allow me to crank tighter than the phillips head. 

Steve R.

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 04:17:09 PM »
Make sure you are using large enough deck washers.

JL recommends using silver dollar size deck washers on your Tuttle bolts.

The cracking maybe from your deck .

Steve
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 04:55:12 PM »
Yes, use Allen head and t handle wrench. If the board was built right, no issues cranking them down tight. Mine still popped often on the first ride.

Look in the bolt hole to make sure its very thick to take the torque. The gofoil box is probably 3/8 thick carbon at the hole.

PonoBill

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 07:05:29 PM »
My boards did it all the time. I chalked up the Tuttle boxes and found the high points, sanded them with an extended multitool plate with sandpaper glued on. One I got the contact point spread to more or less the entire box I lubed it with silicone paste and cranked away. My Tuttle stays tight, Allens or Torx screws help. On my Kalama board, the screws go down into the Tuttle box so I use shorter screws with washers that barely7 fit into the holes. On my JL I use fairly thick stainless fender washers glued to the deck under the deck pad. Both boards currently have #3 Phillips screws because I lost the fancy-schmancy stainless 6mm Torx screws.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:08:02 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Califoilia

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2019, 12:14:18 AM »
Fish,

That happened all the time when I was talking my foil off my board everyday until I got the bigger van where board and foil went in all as one. So after the first time of assembling the foil in the Tuttle, hearing the same noise you describe, and finding a loose front screw (rear not so much) upon returning to the beach...but after tightening the screws again, the noise was not heard again and the screws were never loose again until I took the foil off the board sometime later for whatever reason.

My assumption was that we really can't tighten the screws enough to truly set the Tuttle mast into the board's receiver no matter what we do in the beach, and the creaking, cracking sounds we're hearing is simply the upward forces of the flying foil being pushed up into the mast, and seating it further up into the receiver, and why the screw(s) loosen and need to be tightened to take up that new "slack" of that shortened distance of foil in receiver.

I'm now riding an adapter in tracks w/o a Tuttle in the board because I really like the extra 3" of mast, and true or not...it "feels" to be more solid, but that could just be more confirmation bias on my part.  :-[ :)
Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2021, 04:57:20 PM »
Fish,

That happened all the time when I was talking my foil off my board everyday until I got the bigger van where board and foil went in all as one. So after the first time of assembling the foil in the Tuttle, hearing the same noise you describe, and finding a loose front screw (rear not so much) upon returning to the beach...but after tightening the screws again, the noise was not heard again and the screws were never loose again until I took the foil off the board sometime later for whatever reason.

My assumption was that we really can't tighten the screws enough to truly set the Tuttle mast into the board's receiver no matter what we do in the beach, and the creaking, cracking sounds we're hearing is simply the upward forces of the flying foil being pushed up into the mast, and seating it further up into the receiver, and why the screw(s) loosen and need to be tightened to take up that new "slack" of that shortened distance of foil in receiver.

I'm now riding an adapter in tracks w/o a Tuttle in the board because I really like the extra 3" of mast, and true or not...it "feels" to be more solid, but that could just be more confirmation bias on my part.  :-[ :)

Yeah, so same thing is happening to me, except it's so loose that I can see it flexing inside the tuttle. I can literally feel it cavating under me standing on it. So........I'm going to try and get a plate mount, in the meantime, has anyone shim'ed it with some foil tape to tighten it up?
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

805StandUp

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2021, 06:11:10 PM »
Fish,

That happened all the time when I was talking my foil off my board everyday until I got the bigger van where board and foil went in all as one. So after the first time of assembling the foil in the Tuttle, hearing the same noise you describe, and finding a loose front screw (rear not so much) upon returning to the beach...but after tightening the screws again, the noise was not heard again and the screws were never loose again until I took the foil off the board sometime later for whatever reason.

My assumption was that we really can't tighten the screws enough to truly set the Tuttle mast into the board's receiver no matter what we do in the beach, and the creaking, cracking sounds we're hearing is simply the upward forces of the flying foil being pushed up into the mast, and seating it further up into the receiver, and why the screw(s) loosen and need to be tightened to take up that new "slack" of that shortened distance of foil in receiver.

I'm now riding an adapter in tracks w/o a Tuttle in the board because I really like the extra 3" of mast, and true or not...it "feels" to be more solid, but that could just be more confirmation bias on my part.  :-[ :)

Yeah, so same thing is happening to me, except it's so loose that I can see it flexing inside the tuttle. I can literally feel it cavating under me standing on it. So........I'm going to try and get a plate mount, in the meantime, has anyone shim'ed it with some foil tape to tighten it up?

Bill's suggestion of fender washers is a good one.  I also noticed that my foil shipped with different sized screws.  The longer ones leave room for movement but the slightly shorter ones did not have a problem.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2021, 02:55:03 AM »
Fish,

That happened all the time when I was talking my foil off my board everyday until I got the bigger van where board and foil went in all as one. So after the first time of assembling the foil in the Tuttle, hearing the same noise you describe, and finding a loose front screw (rear not so much) upon returning to the beach...but after tightening the screws again, the noise was not heard again and the screws were never loose again until I took the foil off the board sometime later for whatever reason.


My assumption was that we really can't tighten the screws enough to truly set the Tuttle mast into the board's receiver no matter what we do in the beach, and the creaking, cracking sounds we're hearing is simply the upward forces of the flying foil being pushed up into the mast, and seating it further up into the receiver, and why the screw(s) loosen and need to be tightened to take up that new "slack" of that shortened distance of foil in receiver.

I'm now riding an adapter in tracks w/o a Tuttle in the board because I really like the extra 3" of mast, and true or not...it "feels" to be more solid, but that could just be more confirmation bias on my part.  :-[ :)

Yeah, so same thing is happening to me, except it's so loose that I can see it flexing inside the tuttle. I can literally feel it cavating under me standing on it. So........I'm going to try and get a plate mount, in the meantime, has anyone shim'ed it with some foil tape to tighten it up?

Bill's suggestion of fender washers is a good one.  I also noticed that my foil shipped with different sized screws.  The longer ones leave room for movement but the slightly shorter ones did not have a problem.

Yeah, I don't think mine is from the screws it's not flexing back and forth, rather side to side. I put it in another board  (prone) and no issues, I think it's the tuttle itself on the JL from taking it on and off a ton,basically sanding it down. Any suggestions for thickening the tuttle so it fits snug? Foil tape was my thought
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

Califoilia

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2021, 12:19:30 PM »
Yeah, I don't think mine is from the screws it's not flexing back and forth, rather side to side. I put it in another board  (prone) and no issues, I think it's the tuttle itself on the JL from taking it on and off a ton,basically sanding it down. Any suggestions for thickening the tuttle so it fits snug? Foil tape was my thought.
I think what you might be feeling there is the flex in the carbon mast if you're talking about when you're standing on your sup, and you can feel a flex or side-to-side wobble.

I felt that too when I had my Go Foil stuff, and felt it more so when I had the bigger Maliko on instead of the Iwa or Gas (but it was still there to some degree with all of them). You're probably not feeling it on your prone board, because you're not standing on it, so your COG is lower, and have nothing really to wobble's with or against.

Just a guess, but what I noticed with the GF masts, that I've never felt with the Axis aluminum mast...although I did get a slight bit of it with their v1 carbon mast, that's again not there any longer once they beefed up their v2 carbon mast.

Me: 6'1"/185...5'1" Kings Foil Board...5'7" Kings Foil Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

jondrums

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2021, 03:39:40 PM »
The first GoFoil masts weren't nearly as stiff as the more recent ones.  I prone and SUP and the same mast feels different on SUP.  you can feel it flexing side to side when paddling with the board in the water on SUP, but impossible to detect on prone.  My guess is that it is mast stiffness you are feeling UNLESS you hear/feel a clunking - that could be the tuttle.  But, I've never heard of a tuttle being loose side to side

fatfish

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2021, 04:06:37 PM »
So on my gen 1 Go Foil and probably Gen 1 JL Sup i did end up shimming the tuttle with some foil tape.  Just on the side and it was snug and no more clunking sound.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Mast loosening while up and gliding
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2021, 01:57:27 AM »
So on my gen 1 Go Foil and probably Gen 1 JL Sup i did end up shimming the tuttle with some foil tape.  Just on the side and it was snug and no more clunking sound.

Yeah, it's a Gen 1 mast. I think it may be a bit of both the mast not being quite as stiff and loose in the tuttle. It went from slightly noticeable to almost unrideable in a few sessions (after a year of sessions). I'll start reviewing options for a new setup, I'm honestly progressing to a point that a new, more efficient foil might be in the offering. I was going to just progress to prone, but damn if I don't always grab the SUP. I just like all of the advantages of SUP (the downside being the extra volume).
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'2" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
6'5" JL Flying-V/GoFoil Maliko 200
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

 


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