Author Topic: 2019 SIC Catalog  (Read 33302 times)

RideTheGlide

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2019, 07:30:19 PM »
The RS 14x26 is 306L and 26lbs.

The Okeanos 14x28 is probably around 340L (same as the RS 14x28) and 34lbs (a lot heavier than the 14x29 RS) as it says here:

https://sb3f1dcc8780460dc.jimcontent.com/download/version/1537881416/module/15201254224/name/2019_SIC_Catalog8.13.pdf

The 14x26 RS is certainly stable enough and well-behaved enough to use for touring, for the average paddler. It even has a deck cargo net fitted as standard.

The Okeanos is going to be great for carrying loads (looks as if it has cargo bungees at the rear as well) and is hugely cheaper. If it also uses a 3-fin setup as the catalog shows, that is innovative. Most people reading this forum probably don’t need a board that big and heavy, but it would be good for multi-day trips, or as a budget race-tourer for a really big guy.

Browsing that catalog made me want a Saber 11.6.

The Okeanos is interesting. A couple of other reasons a smaller guy would want a giant SUP are offshore fishing and carrying a passenger and gear sometimes, like crossing over to an island with only water access and an uncrowded beach. This is in addition to hauling gear for multi-day trips.  I am not sold on the idea of most of the fishing SUPs handling the open ocean well if things get rough before you make it to shore. Maybe I am wrong and another reason to paddle one is peace of mind for the paranoid.  :D
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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2019, 10:02:26 PM »
Ha! That’s funny, RidetheGlide: I’m currently fighting a battle with myself to try to resist buying a Saber 11-6. I’m not sure I’m winning though... the urge is strong :)

The Saber is a really good combination of things if you are a small wave surfer and general ocean recreational paddler: 30” width (rather than stupidly wide), multi-use rockerline, superb handle, 2+1 fin setup, thinned out nose and tail, Innegra-reinforced rails, double leash plugs (I think), camera attachment, cargo net, multistage deck pad etc - it’s a long list of very useful features in a board size that will be a lot of fun for a lot of activities.

So much of the SIC stuff is well thought-out like that; you can really tell that they are designed by people who actually SUP a lot, so know how important the details become, day-to-day, and which of those are the most important things to have.

RideTheGlide

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2019, 05:26:02 AM »
Ha! That’s funny, RidetheGlide: I’m currently fighting a battle with myself to try to resist buying a Saber 11-6. I’m not sure I’m winning though... the urge is strong :)

The Saber is a really good combination of things if you are a small wave surfer and general ocean recreational paddler: 30” width (rather than stupidly wide), multi-use rockerline, superb handle, 2+1 fin setup, thinned out nose and tail, Innegra-reinforced rails, double leash plugs (I think), camera attachment, cargo net, multistage deck pad etc - it’s a long list of very useful features in a board size that will be a lot of fun for a lot of activities.

So much of the SIC stuff is well thought-out like that; you can really tell that they are designed by people who actually SUP a lot, so know how important the details become, day-to-day, and which of those are the most important things to have.

The other somewhat similar ones on my "currently just daydreaming" list are the 11' 4" Nalu and One World 11' 1" x 30" x 5" model. Neither of those are as well equipped or designed as much for use outside the surf zone but might be better surfers. I really don't see surfing becoming my focus but would enjoy catching a few small waves every now and then.
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robon

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2019, 07:23:06 AM »
I think all three of us agree on one point:we all love a low volume board for down-winding in the bumps of 4x4ing in side chop :-) and it is reflected in our respective boards for such.

As neither of us seems to be racing in the traditional point of view then my only question is what volume board for of a relaxing but still fast distance paddle on flat . I would likely be very happy with a SIC RS 26" at the upper end of the volume scale 306L but would rather not go too narrow as it would defeat my purpose . the Sunova Allround 14x27 at 319L would be more into AllStar territory. Not sure what <27"> wide board under 300L would fit that bill. Maybe the old Javelin X28.

If you really considering a 28" wide, the SIC Okeanos might fit the bill. 306L @ 28" wide doesn't seem excessive and this board seems to share some RS DNA. At $1600 or so it's more on the affordable side.

Luc doesn’t paddle 14 foot boards that weigh more than 26 pounds ;) On a more serious note, I have looked at two different 2019 SIC online product guides with differing information on the Okeanos. SUPviennas online information shows the Okeanos having 340 litres of volume, weighing 34 pounds, opposed to the link on this thread showing 306 litres at 32 pounds.

https://supvienna.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/2019_sic_catalog8-13.pdf

 The production RS at 14 x 28 is 340 litres, which the Okeanos is based on, so what’s the right information?

SIC are notoriously known to fuckup their catalog specs so I wouldn't trust it blindly and ask before I buy.
The board on the catalog looks a lot slimmer an more inline with lower volume. board on your pdf seems way thicker,
more inline with 340.

That said, it could be neither. My wishful thinking goes with 306L, that's the one I'll want to cruise on.

It's a good question to our zoner supnorte who posted this catalog

A 306 litre model would likely be the faster cruising option but it would make sense that the Okeanos would probably mirror the RS 14 x 28 for volume specs. I have also been checking out the NSP 14 x 30 coco performance touring board as my next barge among others. Paddleboard specialists have it listed at around 29.5 pounds I believe. So, definitely lighter by a couple pounds at a minimum, and closer to 5 pounds if the weight on the SIC is 34 pounds.. The NSP has more options for tie down points up front, but I would add NSI loops regardless. Price is almost the same from what I have read on here.

I guess my question would be about cruising speed and stability. It's nice to have a bit more real estate on the deck for touring at a wider width, but if the narrower profile of the Okeanos is faster and just as stable, then that makes the choice interesting.. Not easy to tell what shape would do better in conditions, but the shape the Okeanos is based on was well rated for rough waters.

https://www.paddleboardspecialists.com/14-x-30-Coco-Performance-Touring-Natural-2018/productinfo/NSP18CCPT1430/

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2019, 08:57:11 AM »
I guess my question would be about cruising speed and stability. It's nice to have a bit more real estate on the deck for touring at a wider width, but if the narrower profile of the Okeanos is faster and just as stable, then that makes the choice interesting.. Not easy to tell what shape would do better in conditions, but the shape the Okeanos is based on was well rated for rough waters.

Having ridden all 14' models of the RS and looking at the shape of the Okeanos knowing it's sharing the same DNA of the RS I would look favorably at this model for touring purposes, 306 or 340.

Haven't tried the NSP so can't speak to it, but looking at the Okeanos in comparison, based on my knowledge of the RS, adding a wider tail, a more parallel outline, widest point further up
at 28" wide I would deem it a barge. If I'm to compare it with the NSP based on shape on paper alone I would think it would be as stable and faster but less maneuverable.

As for the weight, if that's actually what it says in the catalog, I would hope it goes towards durability. If that is the case, not a bad attribute to have in such a board where you might carry
boat load of stuff anyway while touring. That's how I would approach it based on my needs.
in progress...

Luc Benac

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2019, 09:11:25 AM »
Yes a distinction should be made between "Touring expedition" as carrying loads of equipment (Mel style) and maybe "Fast cruising" which is what I have in mind i.e. flattish water conditions, paddling fast to cover distance but not racing or down-winding, medium cadence so needs glide, no weight on the board outside of a small lunch, extra clothes and water :-)
Just on paper and accounts from forum members, the Okeanos should cover the "Touring" aspect and the RS 26" should cover the "Fats cruising" aspect very well.
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Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
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robon

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2019, 09:53:05 AM »
Yes a distinction should be made between "Touring expedition" as carrying loads of equipment (Mel style) and maybe "Fast cruising" which is what I have in mind i.e. flattish water conditions, paddling fast to cover distance but not racing or down-winding, medium cadence so needs glide, no weight on the board outside of a small lunch, extra clothes and water :-)
Just on paper and accounts from forum members, the Okeanos should cover the "Touring" aspect and the RS 26" should cover the "Fats cruising" aspect very well.

Right now, the big load I’m carrying is my own body and a gigantic board isn’t a need, but nice to have for expediton type paddling. I get by with my Glide but a more specific touring board with a bit more volume would be good.

Luc Benac

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2019, 10:08:16 AM »

Right now, the big load I’m carrying is my own body and a gigantic board isn’t a need, but nice to have for expediton type paddling. I get by with my Glide but a more specific touring board with a bit more volume would be good.

You deserve it :-)
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
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RideTheGlide

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2019, 10:24:46 AM »

A 306 litre model would likely be the faster cruising option but it would make sense that the Okeanos would probably mirror the RS 14 x 28 for volume specs. I have also been checking out the NSP 14 x 30 coco performance touring board as my next barge among others. Paddleboard specialists have it listed at around 29.5 pounds I believe. So, definitely lighter by a couple pounds at a minimum, and closer to 5 pounds if the weight on the SIC is 34 pounds.. The NSP has more options for tie down points up front, but I would add NSI loops regardless. Price is almost the same from what I have read on here.

I guess my question would be about cruising speed and stability. It's nice to have a bit more real estate on the deck for touring at a wider width, but if the narrower profile of the Okeanos is faster and just as stable, then that makes the choice interesting.. Not easy to tell what shape would do better in conditions, but the shape the Okeanos is based on was well rated for rough waters.

https://www.paddleboardspecialists.com/14-x-30-Coco-Performance-Touring-Natural-2018/productinfo/NSP18CCPT1430/

I wish there was some objective way to rate the performance of boards. IMO, with touring boards, it isn't max speed that's the concern as much as how much effort is required to maintain a given speed. And for the boards you are comparing and my similar sized Glide (virtually same specs as the NSP) there is also the question of conditions - is it slowed by chop? The worst case scenario where stability comes into play is impossible to gauge accurately/fairly - how rough can it be before it starts to substantially affect your pace?
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Luc Benac

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2019, 10:32:50 AM »
I wish there was some objective way to rate the performance of boards. IMO, with touring boards, it isn't max speed that's the concern as much as how much effort is required to maintain a given speed. And for the boards you are comparing and my similar sized Glide (virtually same specs as the NSP) there is also the question of conditions - is it slowed by chop? The worst case scenario where stability comes into play is impossible to gauge accurately/fairly - how rough can it be before it starts to substantially affect your pace?

That is why we have Area10 and Burchas to report on open water performance of a board (for average size) and UGKM to report on river/lake and racing (for big guys) :-)
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

RideTheGlide

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2019, 04:28:34 PM »
I wish there was some objective way to rate the performance of boards. IMO, with touring boards, it isn't max speed that's the concern as much as how much effort is required to maintain a given speed. And for the boards you are comparing and my similar sized Glide (virtually same specs as the NSP) there is also the question of conditions - is it slowed by chop? The worst case scenario where stability comes into play is impossible to gauge accurately/fairly - how rough can it be before it starts to substantially affect your pace?

That is why we have Area10 and Burchas to report on open water performance of a board (for average size) and UGKM to report on river/lake and racing (for big guys) :-)

With all due respect to them, there will still be some subjectivity and it won't be comprehensive.

Even if you demo the boats yourself it will be hard to know. Flat water racers would be a lot easier; assuming it's a reasonably calm day, I could just jump on and see how fast I go on board A, B and C.

For example, I demoed a Glide like the one I ended up buying. It was on a lake back in June. I took my little day bag that had Strava tracking because I was paddling my little iSUP. I paddled at a little over 4 mph when I was trying to do a good touring pace and paddled over 6 mph in beast mode, which I could not sustain long. At the time, I didn't know I would be considering buying one at the end of the year. So when I ended up considering it, I knew I won't hate it in flat water, which is good, but I still had to take the description of open ocean performance largely on faith even though that's one of the primary reasons for getting it. I did go bash through some surf and bob up and down on swells last weekend and was happy with it.

So I feel like I know it wasn't a bad decision, but I don't know how much of a trade off I made versus that NSP or the Okeanos. The 30" Glide has a slimmer 29" sister that by all accounts is still plenty stable and a bit faster. All of those alternatives were substantially more money; knowing that most people prefer them isn't enough to know how much of a trade off I was making, if any. I say "if any" because stability is really important to me; I need it more than I used to. It would be nice to have some kind of objective scores for speed and stability in flat, chop, breaking waves and SHTF.

Pipe dream...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 04:31:31 PM by RideTheGlide »
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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2019, 05:03:28 PM »
If you want stability and ease of paddling for touring over long periods then forget 14ft boards and get an unlimited class one instead. It’s so much less tiring to paddle narrower boards, and UL class boards can give you the same stability as a wide 14 but much narrower.

The main problem is that few companies make them, unfortunately. The 17ft SIC Bullets (or F16) won’t work as tourers because they are made (usually) in a heavy double-carbon layup, and have too much rocker for flat water touring. Maybe the Bayonet if you had good balance, but again, it is pretty heavy. The Sunova and ONE boards will be too narrow for comfortable touring for most. And deep dugouts are a love-them-or-hate-them proposition (I’m in the latter category). This niche was what the Ace GT was designed to address -the UL class race/tourer. It’s a shame there aren’t more in that category. 14ft isn’t really long enough IMO to give people of average skills a board that is stable enough for all conditions (especially loaded up with gear) in a narrow enough width to make long distance paddles effortless.

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2019, 05:51:32 PM »
If you want stability and ease of paddling for touring over long periods then forget 14ft boards and get an unlimited class one instead. It’s so much less tiring to paddle narrower boards, and UL class boards can give you the same stability as a wide 14 but much narrower.

The main problem is that few companies make them, unfortunately. The 17ft SIC Bullets (or F16) won’t work as tourers because they are made (usually) in a heavy double-carbon layup, and have too much rocker for flat water touring. Maybe the Bayonet if you had good balance, but again, it is pretty heavy. The Sunova and ONE boards will be too narrow for comfortable touring for most. And deep dugouts are a love-them-or-hate-them proposition (I’m in the latter category). This niche was what the Ace GT was designed to address -the UL class race/tourer. It’s a shame there aren’t more in that category. 14ft isn’t really long enough IMO to give people of average skills a board that is stable enough for all conditions (especially loaded up with gear) in a narrow enough width to make long distance paddles effortless.

With an unlimited budget and unlimited storage space, this would be something I would consider. Unfortunately I have neither.

I think I have decent paddling skills; I paddled my little 9'9" iSUP over 10 miles at a time several times last year, averaging around 3.4 mph and it glides like a tennis ball, plus I was using the lousy generic aluminum shaft paddle. But my balance is only okay. It used to be great. I am 60, so I don't expect it to get better but staying active I hope any further decline will be slow.

My point was that when I decided that this board seems like it will do what I want and is within my budget, I would have liked some metrics instead of just a gut feel about how it compared to other alternatives.

The sort of metrics I am talking about are things like how fast that Ace GT would go in swells if I paddled steadily with the same effort as paddling the Glide at 4 mph. I have no idea how to measure stability; there is more to it than falling or not.

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2019, 12:00:10 AM »
Beyond rather trivial lab-based tests, it’s not possible to provide an objective measure that would be of much help, for what you want. The experience that an individual has with a board is an interaction between board, rider, and conditions in such a way that the measure would end up less accurate as a guide than demoing the board yourself, and it would be difficult and expensive to do.

Very often, what creates the feeling of stability is the *predictability* of handling of a board. This is where the interaction comes in. Very many designs over the years (including for instance the V1 and V2 Glides) have been 95% quite predictable, but in a particular combination of conditions have become squirrely and awkward, and you’d find yourself falling unexpectedly, without quite knowing why. Capturing that experience in a scientific metric that anyone could understand or use would be extremely difficult, and in any case would vary greatly from person to person.

So, what you are stuck with is this: (1) demo a board yourself, in the conditions you intend to use it. (2) Know yourself, your abilities, and what suits you best. Paddle lots of boards at every opportunity in as many conditions as you can, and build up a mental database of what dimensions and styles work for you, and how this differs from other people. (3) Pretty much ignore the opinions of people who have a conflict of interest in what they say (eg. anyone who has a financial interest in your purchases, or in a brand). People tell the most outrageous untruths as soon as money or status is involved, and one person’s experience of a board may in any case be very different from yours. (4) listen to the majority opinions given by independent observers, if you can find them. But remember that your experience of a board will be a very personal interaction between you, the equipment, and the conditions. (5) Get to know particular designers who produce boards that suit you because they have the same priorities that you do, and understand your needs and conditions. (6) Accept that sometimes, despite all of the above, you will still get it wrong. So buy wisely and think about resale value.

Hope this helps. Sometimes things are so complex that one simple number, no matter how scientifically derived, can never describe it well.

Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: 2019 SIC Catalog
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2019, 02:09:57 AM »
If you want stability and ease of paddling for touring over long periods then forget 14ft boards and get an unlimited class one instead. It’s so much less tiring to paddle narrower boards, and UL class boards can give you the same stability as a wide 14 but much narrower.

The main problem is that few companies make them, unfortunately. The 17ft SIC Bullets (or F16) won’t work as tourers because they are made (usually) in a heavy double-carbon layup, and have too much rocker for flat water touring. Maybe the Bayonet if you had good balance, but again, it is pretty heavy. The Sunova and ONE boards will be too narrow for comfortable touring for most. And deep dugouts are a love-them-or-hate-them proposition (I’m in the latter category). This niche was what the Ace GT was designed to address -the UL class race/tourer. It’s a shame there aren’t more in that category. 14ft isn’t really long enough IMO to give people of average skills a board that is stable enough for all conditions (especially loaded up with gear) in a narrow enough width to make long distance paddles effortless.

I did 95 miles on a 12'6" last summer, loaded with gear. I don't know about which speed you're looking for, but the board handled well. It wasn't super fast, but you shouldn't expect a lot of speed loaded with gear. Your goal when camping/touring should be manageable distances so you can have fun/explore/camp.
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