Author Topic: Sugar is sneaky bad....  (Read 11348 times)

pdxmike

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2019, 02:53:16 PM »
I've never checked my BMI till now. I'm at 26.29. I guess that means I still have to lose weight. I knew that....
I'd ignore BMI.  It's skewed against men, tall people and fit people with muscle.  Try a few comparisons.  For me at 6'-1", the BMI says I'd be normal at 140 or more, and overweight at 190.  At 6'-7, 164 is normal, 222 is overweight--even more dumb for an adult male. 


Going the other way, a 5'-1" woman is normal at 98 or more (pretty realistic) and not overweight until 135.  A 135 pound woman at 5'-1" is a lot less skinny than a 222 pound. 6'-7" man.


You can say, well, the BMI's ranges include everyone, so of course the idea that, for instance, the "healthy" range for a given height doesn't mean the low end of healthy is appropriate for a muscular man, just as the high end of "healthy" isn't appropriate for a slightly built young woman.  But even then, it's skewed against taller people, and once you DO factor in type of build and amount of muscle, it becomes almost meaningless (and it never was meant to be used as anything other than a very rough estimation tool).


I've read that 100% of NFL players are above "healthy", and the vast majority of NBA players.  I'd guess the majority of fit adult men fall in the higher end of healthy and well up into "overweight".  It could be interesting to try a poll here--have people list their BMI, and say whether their score realistically describes their weight level.

My BMI is 23.6 now. I am a 5'8" 60 year old man and I think I am fit and trim now. Muscular, but not bulked up. Visible abs but not a 6 pack. If I lost 10 pounds, down to 145, I think I would still look okay. That would be 22. Below that, I think I would like kind of scrawny. I don't think the whole BMI range is valid for anyone, but I think the healthy range for most people is within the normal BMI range or maybe mostly overlaps at the high end. If you work out a lot and build up your chest and shoulders, I think you can be a little over and still be healthy. This forum is not a cross section of the population.
Yes, that fits with my main point, that "fit adult men" will be in the upper end of "normal" and well into "overweight", and people here ARE fitter and muscular than most of the population.  I think you're also right that the whole range won't be valid for any one person, the idea being that a large-boned muscular man wouldn't be expected to be at the low end of the range, and a light-boned woman might be heavier than ideal even if still in the "normal" range. 


Then there's still height, which certainly factors in for people like TallDude.  I recall him being 6'-7", so if he matched your BMI, he'd weigh only 209, which at least to me would a lot skinnier than being 155 at 5'-8". 

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #121 on: February 09, 2019, 03:49:20 AM »
Awesome work on the diet! 

I never understood nuts as a diet food.  A cup of peanuts has 830 calories.  A cup of cooked pasta has 220.  A cup of cheddar cheese has 530.  A cup of sugar has 774.  It is hard to find foods more packed with calories that nuts.  They feed nut paste to malnourished kids to pack on weight.  I consider it to be the absolute worst snack to have around the house.  Not only are they a caloric nightmare but they are delicious.  Just try to stop at the 4 (or 20) that are suggested.  :)

Calories are not the only thing to consider. Carbs and glucose play a huge role in weight gain. I eat 33g of salted macadamia nuts every day. I do weigh them out and I know itís easy to overeat nuts but one serving of Mac nuts will keep me much more satiated than a high carb food. Not trying to go down the whole calories in/calories out thing because I strongly disagree with that mindset but itís much more about the macronutrient breakdown than the straight calorie count.

Hi Kaya,

A cup of Macadamia nuts is 962 calories.  Almost twice the highest calorie Ben and Jerry's in the same portion.  They are the highest calorie nuts with the most fat and the least protein.  I found this out after happily downing a pound of them on my porch in Maui.  I was new to the island and was really feeling my Aloha spirit.  Had a couple of Chi Chis too, and was practicing for my Hapa Loa.  That took a few weeks to burn down.

I understand what you are saying and yes, the ounce that you are eating has some good stuff, but it is tiny.  If you are at your weight and it is easy for you to maintain then no worries.  As a diet, however, they are just way too high calorie.  There is no fighting the math. 

RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #122 on: February 09, 2019, 05:29:15 AM »
I think you might be missing the point on nuts. I ate pecans often while losing over 65 pounds. I would feel pretty satisfied with 2 or 3 ounces. I often had just a half ounce as a small snack. If I had 2 ounces of nuts, I wouldn't be hungry for a while. If I had a cup of Ben and Jerry's, I would want another cup right away. If you can get into a routine of eating less volume, it is a lot easier to take weight off. Eating what I want, just less of it (sometimes more, making a tradeoff later), made it a lot easier for me to stick to it in order to lose the weight and keep it off (so far; in ~3 weeks I will have stayed at my new weight a year).

Also, the whole point of the thread is pushing the idea of eating as little sugar as possible. I eat a lot of sugar, but trying to cut back. Ben and Jerry's is not low sugar.
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kayadogg

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #123 on: February 09, 2019, 08:21:09 AM »
Awesome work on the diet! 

I never understood nuts as a diet food.  A cup of peanuts has 830 calories.  A cup of cooked pasta has 220.  A cup of cheddar cheese has 530.  A cup of sugar has 774.  It is hard to find foods more packed with calories that nuts.  They feed nut paste to malnourished kids to pack on weight.  I consider it to be the absolute worst snack to have around the house.  Not only are they a caloric nightmare but they are delicious.  Just try to stop at the 4 (or 20) that are suggested.  :)

Calories are not the only thing to consider. Carbs and glucose play a huge role in weight gain. I eat 33g of salted macadamia nuts every day. I do weigh them out and I know itís easy to overeat nuts but one serving of Mac nuts will keep me much more satiated than a high carb food. Not trying to go down the whole calories in/calories out thing because I strongly disagree with that mindset but itís much more about the macronutrient breakdown than the straight calorie count.

Hi Kaya,

A cup of Macadamia nuts is 962 calories.  Almost twice the highest calorie Ben and Jerry's in the same portion.  They are the highest calorie nuts with the most fat and the least protein.  I found this out after happily downing a pound of them on my porch in Maui.  I was new to the island and was really feeling my Aloha spirit.  Had a couple of Chi Chis too, and was practicing for my Hapa Loa.  That took a few weeks to burn down.

I understand what you are saying and yes, the ounce that you are eating has some good stuff, but it is tiny.  If you are at your weight and it is easy for you to maintain then no worries.  As a diet, however, they are just way too high calorie.  There is no fighting the math.

I hear ya. Iím biased because I eat a ketogenic diet and Iím fat-adapted so the reason I eat Mac nuts is because they are so high in fat. I understand for most people itís very easy to slam a cup (or more) in one sitting. For me, calories are less of a concern than carbs so thatís why I mentioned that itís not as simple as comparing calorie counts.  B&J, while pretty low calorie for a serving, also has around 30g of carbs in a 1/4 cup. I consume 20g carbs (net) per day so this is why I would never even consider B&J. My wife recently ordered a box of ďnon dairy, non soy, etc etcĒ frozen dessert called Wink. 25 calories in a serving, 1g net carbs. The problem is that it tastes like frozen slush scooped directly off the side of the road.

This thread is about the evils of sugar though so Iíll let it get back on track. I appreciate all of the different viewpoints this thread brings.

eastbound

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #124 on: February 09, 2019, 10:20:02 AM »
nuts just dont put weight on me--i spoon organic raw butters all day long--key protein source for me--cant live on just beans tofu and kale!!

simple carbs, processed grains, refined sugar products, baked goods (god forbid)? whole nuther story--but i just dont go there anymore

just my anecdote, admittedly

and td, bet, if you stick with it (if it hasnt begun already) you will ultimately actually enjoy the foods you are working with (and be annoyed when forced to eat otherwise at restaurant etc). you will go gradually to fighting weight and then just effortlessly live there---eventually the foods you want and get hungry for will be the foods that keep you trim and healthy--keep on it

what's funny too is that if i dont work out, i dont gain--i lose muscle and it's a fight to get it back, but i just dont gain--now that i am a "fake vegan"--daughters' moniker bc i cheat occasionally--as in wild fish and organic eggs occasionally---and a totally hypocritical dessert on rare occasions
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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #125 on: February 09, 2019, 11:03:30 AM »
Baked goods, nuts, carbs, all of it.  No problem, as long as the calories are in check.  Some items make that very hard as they are so calorie packed.  No choice but to go lighter on those (or make up for it later).  If someone were looking to lose weight, they are not going to do it with calorie surplus.  In the opposite, the Naked and Afraid effect.  Everyone, yes, everyone will lose weight at a calorie deficit. 

Sugar is the worst because (unlike nuts, etc) they are crap calories.  Food budget killers.  So, you have to get by with less real food.  That is nearly impossible to do long term. 

TallDude

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #126 on: February 09, 2019, 12:45:17 PM »
Close friends of ours saw the weight I was losing and that got them into going on a (much needed) diet. I would see one of them making the daily (probably more) drive in the morning to the donut shop (2 blocks away) to get a Big Gulp size coke. To me the soda is probably the number one cause of their health and weight issues, with a close second of little to No exercise. They joined Weight Watchers and are working with some sort of WW point system. It sounds kinda of expensive, but I don't no exactly how much. I know that I'm saving a bunch of money by not buying a fountain or any other drink when we go out to eat. Our yogurt and dessert costs have dropped to about zero. My Lily's chocolate bars with Stevia are my small portioned treat here and there.

RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #127 on: February 10, 2019, 05:52:13 AM »
Baked goods, nuts, carbs, all of it.  No problem, as long as the calories are in check.  Some items make that very hard as they are so calorie packed.  No choice but to go lighter on those (or make up for it later).  If someone were looking to lose weight, they are not going to do it with calorie surplus.  In the opposite, the Naked and Afraid effect.  Everyone, yes, everyone will lose weight at a calorie deficit. 

Sugar is the worst because (unlike nuts, etc) they are crap calories.  Food budget killers.  So, you have to get by with less real food.  That is nearly impossible to do long term.

Yep. I get what people say about there being more to it, but that's about overall health and ability to stick to it. Besides the Twinkie guy I posted earlier, there have also been people who did Snickers or Big Macs or all manner of things as the source for all or nearly all of their calories while losing weight. It's just done to prove that point - that calorie count is what determines whether you gain or lose, period. What you won't find are verified cases of people eating the "right foods" and exceeding the number of calories they burn and not gaining. Weight loss/gain is also not linear and nowhere close to immediate; it's about the surplus or deficit over time. Over the course of months, the math for the deficit I maintained and the weight I lost worked out as expected. There were periods of 2 weeks or so in there where it didn't seem to work out at all.
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RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #128 on: February 10, 2019, 07:28:09 AM »
I like this chart that compares various diet strategies:



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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #129 on: February 10, 2019, 08:01:33 AM »
I like this chart that compares various diet strategies:

That is awesome. 

Anything can be a diet as long as the calorie deficit is there.  Pizza can be great for instance.  We did a round of pizza dough yesterday and made it into some tasty Stromboli's and Calzone's.  The dough itself is really healthy and reasonable in calories.  The toppings can blow your whole day if you let it.  A big calzone with two slices of Mozeralla, a boatload of grilled onions, peppers and tomato sauce is 680 calories.  I had two and still had lots of calories to spare. 

Carbs like bread get a bad wrap.  It's fine in balance (actually good because it is filling and its real food).  You just have to be careful because a same sized Calzone can easily go over 2500 calories if you use a ton of cheese, sugary sauce, high cal dough, suasage, etc. 

I make bread a lot now and it is crazy the differences in the dough.  Some have a stick and half of butter, egg, milk in each loaf and a crazy amount of sugar.  Others have a tablespoon of olive oil and a teaspoon of sugar (4 grams -16 calories) just to get the yeast going.  One has 3 times the calories.  Both are awesome.

RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #130 on: February 10, 2019, 08:41:09 AM »
I think one of the biggest things is believing in what you are doing so you are all in. I believe in CICO and I believe I can't self regulate. Both of these things seem pretty well proven. I am a logger because nothing else worked for me in the past. This is working.

A lot of people do the diets listed and track. Some don't track but follow suggested menus or get meal/snack ideas from them or from others who had success with the chosen diet. Those meals and snacks are building blocks used to construct a diet that is a caloric deficit for most adults. If they believe it is keto that's the difference that is making it work this time it can help give them the discipline to stay on keto as they know it, which has meals and snacks that add up to less than they burn each day.
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ninja tuna

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #131 on: February 10, 2019, 04:22:15 PM »
I think that chart is completely misleading.

I follow paleo/primal and have been eating that way along with intermittent fasting.  Most of the time I do not eat breakfast.  I have been reading up on keto lately too because they have some good recipes.  Not one those is about calorie deficits.  They are about eating different styles of food and leaving out others for the health benefits.  Despite eating generally only 2 meals a day, I can easily make that more than my basic caloric intake.  I have gone months at a time of weighing my food to know how many calories I am taking in to learn that . Broken down into macros too.  It gave me an idea about quantities and the effects it had on me. 

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #132 on: February 10, 2019, 05:29:29 PM »
The chart is simply about losing weight with all those alternatives. If you are losing weight, you are in deficit, consuming fewer calories than you are burning. Decrease the consumption, increase the burn or some combination of the two to get into a deficit and you will lose weight. Eat more than you burn and you gain weight. There is no magic way to bend the laws of physics.
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ninja tuna

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #133 on: February 11, 2019, 05:02:51 AM »
I saw The Matrix too.

I am not disagreeing with CICO stuff.

But that chart is flat out wrong because it says paleo/primal, keto,  and intermittent fasting are about cutting calories.  Third column makes it pretty clear where it says, "HOW IT WORKS" which is wrong.  None of those ever talk about counting or cutting calories.  They do talk about eating healthy food until full.  I have read all the books from their creators just about.  And those are not diets.  Low fat diet, yeah, heard lots about that one.  Weight watchers, yeah, that is a diet plan.  The others are about health and eating healthy. Losing weight is a by-product.  They should not be on that chart. 

RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #134 on: February 11, 2019, 05:54:50 AM »
I saw The Matrix too.

I am not disagreeing with CICO stuff.

But that chart is flat out wrong because it says paleo/primal, keto,  and intermittent fasting are about cutting calories.  Third column makes it pretty clear where it says, "HOW IT WORKS" which is wrong.  None of those ever talk about counting or cutting calories.  They do talk about eating healthy food until full.  I have read all the books from their creators just about.  And those are not diets.  Low fat diet, yeah, heard lots about that one.  Weight watchers, yeah, that is a diet plan.  The others are about health and eating healthy. Losing weight is a by-product.  They should not be on that chart.

diet Dictionary result for diet
noun
1.
the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.
"a vegetarian diet"
synonyms:   selection of food, food and drink, food, foodstuffs, provisions, edibles, fare; More

If losing weight is a side effect then there is a calorie deficit. I visit a couple of weight loss forums from time to time. Keto is probably the biggest trend in weight loss right now.
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