Author Topic: Sugar is sneaky bad....  (Read 10115 times)

eastbound

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2018, 04:13:35 AM »
my general practitioner told me she thinks refined sugar is the current tobacco--pure poison, well marketed--soon to be id'ed for what it truly is--i didnt ask for an explanation but she's the best dr ive ever had--pricey---but she takes her time and aint no slouch--my duaghter stalked her and she grad'ed numero uno from her med school class at penn, currently top-rated med school in the country

but yeah refined sugar of any type shd be avoided

kaya--i could show you a simlar before and after on me---208 down to 188---i made zero effort, but for a change to a diet that varies BTWN vegetarian, pescatarian and vegan---no dairy means no several pints of haagen dazs per week, a good start!

last night at a party, there was an amazing dessert layout--i approached it, hesitated and walked away--i dont always
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RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2018, 05:47:29 AM »
The science on types of sugar is pretty clear that refined/added sugar is treated no differently than naturally occurring sugar. The big problem is that you get more sugar than you realize when a lot is added, which means your calorie total for what seems like a reasonable day can be a lot higher. There are some differences for diabetics, but that even applies to some "natural" sources as well. I quoted "natural" because none of the stuff is lab made; the sources are sugar cane, corn and beets mostly.

The main reason I am considering watching it closer and cutting back is that I can end up hitting my calorie goal and still be hungry. Calorie dense fatty foods tend to be more satiating than calorie dense carbs, which is a big reason for the popularity of keto. If you eat less calories than you burn and you have plenty of fat, that's primarily what gets burned no matter what your diet is.

Here is info on how sugar is refined:


Yes, there are several steps where simple compound chemicals are added, most have natural sources. It's not a crazy scary process using harsh chemicals. Calcium carbonate is a naturally occurring compound used as an antacid and a supplement you can find in health food stores. Phosphoric acid is a weak non toxic acid widely used in foods for a slightly sour flavoring - soft drinks, jams/jellies, beer (it is even in a lot of craft and home brewed beers), etc. Unless you are very hardcore about avoiding anything processed, you probably consume a fair amount of both of these chemicals, but oddly enough, very little of it is left in refined sugar.
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iopsailor

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2018, 07:24:27 AM »
My wife and I have got in the habit of eating one square of dark chocolate after lunch.  For some reason, it leaves us totally satisfied, unlike Oreos or candy bars which zoom through the body and leave you wanting more.  Anybody gotta clue?

PonoBill

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »
My wife and I have got in the habit of eating one square of dark chocolate after lunch.  For some reason, it leaves us totally satisfied, unlike Oreos or candy bars which zoom through the body and leave you wanting more.  Anybody gotta clue?

Here's the answer--it's a lot like why ketchup is such a popular condiment--because it satisfies multiple taste and smell components. Malcolm Gladwell wrote an interesting article about that years ago. Chocolate, especially darker varieties, satisfy a large number of appetites.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/comfort-cravings/201402/why-do-we-crave-chocolate-so-much
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natas585

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2018, 01:48:32 PM »
Any type of diet will work for losing weight as long as the calories consumed are less than the calories used over time. Now a good diet is one you can adhere to for basically as long as possible or needed. I can lose weight on a cookie diet, sorry it's true. And so can you if you eat less than your body uses. Now it won't be healthy because you're obviously not getting all the nutrients you need to operate and repair tissues. If you want to avoid sugar, go ahead, but it is not inherently bad for you to consume. If you eat like an asshole and your diet consists of a bunch of empty calories  consisting  of high amounts of carbs/sugars you probably won't have the best metabolic health. But the reason isn't the sugar itself. The brain operates mainly on carbohydrates which are sugars. And paddling as an activity uses mainly carbs for fuel. Your body can become adapted to using mainly fat but not only is it difficult it's also not ideal for almost any athlete. Meaning, sure it can work, but the amount of benefit has very little to no increased performance or health benefit to just eating a well balanced diet structured to your activity level. If something works for you great. But when we are talking about a majority or the average athletic population the science is out there and easily located. Now some of us have certain genes that will predispose us to being able to not get fat as easily as others, process caffeine fast or slow, and have more of a certain muscle fiber. All of us can benefit from getting stronger and eating what our bodies need everyday rather than mostly what we want or like. Get the proper protein, fats, and carbs, and micronutrients each day and if you have extra calories available eat whatever you want.
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RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2018, 02:28:58 PM »
I am glad to see someone come along beating the same drum, more or less. I lost ~65 pounds without following any specific diet instructions, just tracking everything and becoming aware of what I can and can't have within a short amount of time or I will run too short of calories to eat properly or will be too hungry. It doesn't take all your calories to cover the bases for basic nutrition and a substantial chunk of daily calories is discretionary even while in deficit. I choose to eat a lot of carbs, and much of that is sugar. As I said in another post, the only reason I am thinking about adjusting that down a bit is because I often find myself wanting another snack and not having enough left. I can borrow a little from tomorrow, but that's a slippery slope.
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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2018, 03:46:04 AM »
It doesn't take all your calories to cover the bases for basic nutrition and a substantial chunk of daily calories is discretionary even while in deficit. .

I am right to the number.  Any calories to junk and I am dragging.  Any over my number is a gain day.  It also depends on your goals.  If you are pleased with 10% body fat then you have a lot of wiggle room (and a lot of wiggle).  If you want to get to 6% or lower and have energy all day then it is a (unicorn) rare person that has any calories to spare.

This is still the best article on sugar that I have seen: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&

Here is an old thread on the topic that had some interesting stuff:

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,25180.0.html

RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2018, 04:46:38 AM »
It doesn't take all your calories to cover the bases for basic nutrition and a substantial chunk of daily calories is discretionary even while in deficit. .

I am right to the number.  Any calories to junk and I am dragging.  Any over my number is a gain day.  It also depends on your goals.  If you are pleased with 10% body fat then you have a lot of wiggle room (and a lot of wiggle).  If you want to get to 6% or lower and have energy all day then it is a (unicorn) rare person that has any calories to spare.

This is still the best article on sugar that I have seen: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&

Here is an old thread on the topic that had some interesting stuff:

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,25180.0.html

That article is more compelling than most arguments I hear.  He does a good job explaining the science instead of just referencing something that is hard to understand and doesn't tell the whole story.

On the point of fat, I Googled up a few charts and this one seems fairly common at fitness sites that usually have good info:



10% BF is only .1% above the bottom of the range for an athlete for my age. I am not "pleased with 10%" - I am ecstatic about 15%. I have visible abs. This chart:



Says optimal for my age is 19-25% and below 18 is low.  I call BS on that.

Another one for good measure. It says below 12% is underfat for me. I am not cherry picking, BTW. I can't find any chart that says it is healthy for me to get down into the single digits.

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2018, 02:30:42 PM »
I like the image below.  :)  It will depend on your goals and where you find that your body feels the most capable and healthy.  For me there is no comparison.  Minimal excess has all the advantages.  If you are enjoying increased fitness at 15% you might want to see how lower feels.  It is a cool experiment at the very least. 



RideTheGlide

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2018, 03:44:12 PM »
To me, that concurs with what the charts I found say. The lowest one that looks healthy to me is the 10-12 and the highest one is the 20. The 3-4% guy looks like a villain from a Marvel movie. I might be a little under 15 or maybe just have fat that's distributed differently. I don't have quite as much ab definition as the 10-12 guy, but more than the 15.
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TallDude

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2018, 04:20:35 PM »
I don't have quite as much ab definition as the 10-12 guy, but more than the 15.
So 15% would be considered ab normal?
That's my goal....

Eagle

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2018, 10:08:06 PM »
I like the image below.  :)  It will depend on your goals and where you find that your body feels the most capable and healthy.  For me there is no comparison.  Minimal excess has all the advantages.  If you are enjoying increased fitness at 15% you might want to see how lower feels.  It is a cool experiment at the very least. 



Thought that pic to be valid -> but found it really depends on age.  So can be very deceiving.  At 60 or so the cutoff for very very lean is quite high comparatively.  Take a DEXA scan to see your true BF%.  This was my third one.  They rate based on Z-Score which is a very good representation on where you stand vs your peers.  But take one to also track your muscle mass gains and losses -> as well as BMD.  Those 2 were much more important to me.  Most important tho were comparative blood tests as diet was massaged.  That is where the most important gains were made by far.  Yeah abs are one thing.  Overrated really.  But insides are key.  Much rather have no abs -> but perfect blood numbers.  As always YMMV.
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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2018, 03:24:02 AM »
To me, that concurs with what the charts I found say. The lowest one that looks healthy to me is the 10-12 and the highest one is the 20. The 3-4% guy looks like a villain from a Marvel movie. I might be a little under 15 or maybe just have fat that's distributed differently. I don't have quite as much ab definition as the 10-12 guy, but more than the 15.

Hi Ride,

I am not sure why they switched to gym guy for 6-7 percent :).  It would have been better if they had kept it more similar.  Bulk is certainly  not required for lower body fat.  Rock climbers are great examples of ultra lean / max strength.  That to me is the goal.  I actually think most people can get there just by shedding all of the junk, but for most  of us it really has to be that. The all is the critical factor and is the start of the most easily sustainable eating habit.  Once its gone for a while there are no cravings. 

eastbound

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2018, 03:33:20 AM »
admin, i have no issue eating extremely well when i cook for myself--as usual, it's other people who are the problem!

any social eating of food prepared by others, or restaurant food (at least in my world) is laden with sugar salt and unhealthy fats

cravings? bah....no problem with that---problem is about staying on track while trying to be a social human
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Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: Sugar is sneaky bad....
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2018, 04:36:35 AM »
Of course this thread had to start during the time of year where there's the most sugar flowing through my house!
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