Author Topic: Big waves are fun but expensive.  (Read 2012 times)

opie

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Big waves are fun but expensive.
« on: December 20, 2018, 08:07:46 AM »
I  had a chance to ride some big slopey waves, maybe 8 foot, breaking on an outer bar then backing off.  My 7'10" Takuma made digging into them easy.  I think Beasho is right about using a bigger board for bigger waves.


One wave stood up and barreled.  You have to be carful with these things. :(

It was a lot of fun but I will definitely be thinking twice before I go out in bigger surf again.





This is the fourth time I have had this view of a foilboard in just over a year of foiling.

PonoBill

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 09:53:51 AM »
Ouch. I'm starting to think I was wrong about tracks being as strong or stronger than Tuttle boxes that tie through to the top deck.
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Beasho

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 11:44:45 AM »
Pono - You should get a Dual Track tattoo.

"Expensive is as Expensive does" said with a Forest Gump accent. 

If the foil gets hit by anything over 8 feet there are NO Guarantees other than potential separation.  Hopefully it was a GoFoil or other floating variety.

I foil in SUPER defensive mode - staying well wide of any possible closeouts. 

I have seen and experienced too many box failures and resigned myself to the modular approach to foiling life - When it rips out get the Gorilla Glue and put it back in.  Tuttle boxes are actually quite 'easy' to put back in.

See 3 failures below, 2 of them my own.  All repairs flew for 100's of waves after separation.  The Blue Bomber at the bottom is still flying high.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 11:46:28 AM by Beasho »

opie

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 03:32:20 PM »
It was a Go Foil, and swimming in large surf with foil, paddle and board was not that easy.  I lost control of the board half way in and broke the leash.  The first wave ripped the foil out of one hand and it tapped my temple a couple times.  After that every time a wave broke on top of me I held the foil tight with both hands and hugged it against my body.  I couldn't control the foil and the paddle in the shore break so I just let the paddle wash in.

Guys on the beach were preparing to rescue me until they saw I was still holding on to the foil.  Then they knew I was okay.   :)  I guess if you did not notice I was pulling a foil you would just see a guy struggling slowly and swimming with three limbs.


As for the original breakage, it was a lot of force.  It was completely torn off, and my Go Foil mast has a new crack all the way around right above the fuselage.
  I wouldn't expect a board to survive that.  And if it did, maybe I'd have a two piece mast instead.

SUPeter

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 03:43:59 PM »
Yep! That would be fully expected when Tuttle or otherwise does not anchor itself to both the top and bottom of board.  With all the forces involved, I think we need far more structural support in and around the Tuttle.  The Tuttle itself was never designed for what we are using it for.   If you can find me a manufacturer who makes just the actual carbon glass boxes(the piece that actually fits over the mast insert)  I would "improve" upon them and resell them as true Foiling Tuttle boxes.   

Yes, I agree with the last statement.  The masts will break before the reinforced tuttle would fail.  What to do?  Build a better mast!  It never ends!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 03:57:42 PM by SUPeter »

opie

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 05:08:45 PM »
I copied Scubasteves method on my homemade board with four short stringers on each side of each track.  I barely rode it,  but it feels rock solid.

scubasteve

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2018, 01:34:43 AM »
This one Opie.
I have used this technique for all my boards still not had one move.
Cheers
Scuba

SUPeter

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2018, 04:30:39 AM »
Very nice!  Do the plywood pieces extend through to the deck?

opie

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2018, 10:21:16 AM »
Yes.

Fishman

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2018, 02:09:57 PM »
It was a Go Foil, and swimming in large surf with foil, paddle and board was not that easy.  I lost control of the board half way in and broke the leash.  The first wave ripped the foil out of one hand and it tapped my temple a couple times.  After that every time a wave broke on top of me I held the foil tight with both hands and hugged it against my body.  I couldn't control the foil and the paddle in the shore break so I just let the paddle wash in.

Guys on the beach were preparing to rescue me until they saw I was still holding on to the foil.  Then they knew I was okay.   :)  I guess if you did not notice I was pulling a foil you would just see a guy struggling slowly and swimming with three limbs.


As for the original breakage, it was a lot of force.  It was completely torn off, and my Go Foil mast has a new crack all the way around right above the fuselage.
  I wouldn't expect a board to survive that.  And if it did, maybe I'd have a two piece mast instead.
Yes, makes me re-think 8mm screws and super strong SS base plate t-nuts. Maybe it would be better to use 6mm and the low quality brass T-nuts? Cheap sacrificial T-nuts might not be a bad idea especially if your foil floats
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:15:08 PM by Fishman »
SupSurfMachine 9'9" longboard
SupSurfMachine  8'2" funboard

PonoBill

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2018, 03:20:22 PM »
Better go all the way to plastic fin savers if you want sacrificial qualities.
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opie

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2018, 03:54:20 PM »
Yes, makes me re-think 8mm screws and super strong SS base plate t-nuts. Maybe it would be better to use 6mm and the low quality brass T-nuts? Cheap sacrificial T-nuts might not be a bad idea especially if your foil floats

Now that's a simple solution for a breakaway.  I had to look up  plastic fin savers.  Do you think they would be worth a shot, or are they definitely too weak? 

I see some experimenting ahead.  The right thickness brass should work.

I'll leash my foil, even though it floats.   :)

sharksupper

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2018, 04:08:56 PM »
Was this at Dillon?  That same thing happened to me and my Lift foil was ripped from the board last year... still out there somewhere near sharpit.  Looking at a 15-20ft barrel coming at you its hard to imagine any kind of foil setup surviving.  FYI, you won't see me out there for a while, I broke my arm in three places mountain biking.  My Jimmy Lewis FlyingV is still holding up and it has taken some big hits, great riding board!

PonoBill

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2018, 08:24:34 PM »
Opie, you're underestimating the strength of brass--yield strength of even garbage brass is 120mpa, the high strength stuff is 300+. If I were going to try metal it would be aluminum. Don't bother with T-nuts, just make some tabs and thread them. You can try different thicknesses and different heat treats. At the soft end, annealed 1100 is about 35MPA yield and 6061 T6 is 275. Some of the unusual alloys go higher, but you could get a lot of range with just a few thicknesses of aluminum bar stock. You can even buy 6061 T6 and anneal some of it to get down to about 70.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 08:28:31 PM by PonoBill »
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PonoBill

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Re: Big waves are fun but expensive.
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2018, 09:27:15 AM »
I should have mentioned that annealing aluminum is easy--I do it all the time if I have to work hardened aluminum like 6061 T6. Set an acetylene torch to a sooty flame and coat the aluminum with soot, adjust the torch to a soot-free flame but not an oxidizing flame and warm the metal until the soot starts to disappear. Let the metal cool. Done.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.