My 12 ft SUP feels tracky with my quad fins

[bluemarlin04]

I have a 12 x 24 x 5 SUP.

It has the 4 + 1 boxes setup. The tail is a double diamond.

I mostly ride it in San Diego at longer point break waves.

I have it set up as a single fin right now but previously had it as a quad fin.

When I had it as a quad fin it felt good going down the line but would not turn if i tried. It seemed that there was so much speed that any attempt at turning and you were bucked off cause of how fast it was going.  Maybe cause I had too much fin? I was running large future black sticks with 80/20 rears.

Should I try 50/50 rear fins?

Should i try put a knubster and see if that helps with some release and drive? I keep hearing the knubster works and I bought both the 3 inch mini fin and guitar pick one from stand up paddle sports but haven't tried them.  Do they help?

Anyone try these fins? https://www.trueames.com/collections/ryan-lovelace/products/lovelace-piggyback-quad

Maybe those with a knub?

Im not trying to do high performance surfing but at least a little turns. I like the speed a quad offers because the rail line is so long that having the two inside rails engaged seems to work best.

Thanks.

[Night Wing]

Since you already have the nubster fin, install the fin to make the board a 5 fin setup. Then try it out and report back.

[Badger]

I would try 50/50's on the rear. I don't think a nubster would help at all but that's just my opinion. Nubsters are just a gimmick to get you to buy them.

If it were me, I would just stay with the single fin.

What board are you riding? Got any pics?

.

[Badger]

What size and type of single fin were you running? Lots of choices there.

[bluemarlin04]

What size and type of single fin were you running? Lots of choices there.

Using the fcs flow 11 inch single fin. Had really good success with it. Good hold and neutral handling and surfed really big surf on it.

[Area 10]

Try a 2+1 setup with a 7” centre fin.

[Badger]

I'm using a 9" FCS II Connect GF on my M-12'6 and am very happy with the speed and turning ability. I had it out yesterday in some thigh high peelers and was loving it.

https://www.surffcs.com/collections/water-sports-longboard/products/fcs-ii-connect-gf-longboard-fin?variant=7411505496125

I like the shape of the Flow but I would go with an 8" or 9", or even smaller with a 2+1 as A-10 suggested.

.

[SUP Sports ®]

I have a 12 x 24 x 5 SUP.

It has the 4 + 1 boxes setup. The tail is a double diamond.

I mostly ride it in San Diego at longer point break waves.

I have it set up as a single fin right now but previously had it as a quad fin.

When I had it as a quad fin it felt good going down the line but would not turn if i tried. It seemed that there was so much speed that any attempt at turning and you were bucked off cause of how fast it was going.  Maybe cause I had too much fin? I was running large future black sticks with 80/20 rears.

Should I try 50/50 rear fins?

Should i try put a knubster and see if that helps with some release and drive? I keep hearing the knubster works and I bought both the 3 inch mini fin and guitar pick one from stand up paddle sports but haven't tried them.  Do they help?

Anyone try these fins? https://www.trueames.com/collections/ryan-lovelace/products/lovelace-piggyback-quad

Maybe those with a knub?

Im not trying to do high performance surfing but at least a little turns. I like the speed a quad offers because the rail line is so long that having the two inside rails engaged seems to work best.

Thanks.

Hard to really tell what's going on without pics of the board and box layout...but, with a 24" width at wide point...sounds like the tail is going to be narrow...

If that's the case, the sidebiters may be too clustered if you are finding it difficult to turn in quad mode...or, they are too stiff and/or you have too much surface area...etc...
Adding one of my StubNubs isn't going to loosen it up or make it less "tracky" if that's indeed the case...

Small trailer fins in combo with a quad setup adds drive and will shorten the arc of a turn without any discernible downside..."nubsters" definitely help to arrest the drift that can happen on wide tailed boards with quads when transitioning rail to rail...while still maintaining the speed advantage that quads offer...etc...

As far as getting bucked off the board because you have too much speed...remember, that your paddle is the biggest fin on your board...it should be used as a governor for stability and control in that scenario...see top pic...

That said, fins do matter...

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,19462.0.html

[Beasho]

I found a similar effect with Quads on my 12' board.

I love quads and use them on EVERY board except my 12'er. 

On the big PSH 12' gun I like to run a single large fin with one trailer on the face side of the wave.

Coming from a windsurfing background if you want to go fast you use 1 fin.  The small trailer is there to prevent possible spinout. 

[SUP Sports ®]

Many of the top big wave surfers on the planet ride quads on their go to guns...

Billy Kemper has won the Jaws contest 3X...he rides quads from Pyzel and Glenn Pang...

World Surf League: What was the model and dimensions of Billy's board?
Jon Pyzel: It's my Crazy Train Quad model and the dims are 10'5 x 20.75 x 3.63 the volume is 80 liters.

WSL: You mentioned it was a quad set up. In recent years a lot of big wave surfers have been using four fins. Can you tell us about the pros/cons of the quad setup?
Pyzel: It was a Future Fin quad. I make probably 95% of my big wave boards quads because they let you get the most speed and control in heavy situations. Quads tend to surf more "round" and less pivoty than a thruster setup, and that suits big waves really well.

s

[SUP Sports ®]

Weird posting glitch...below text got cut off before WSL link...

Many of the top big wave surfers on the planet ride quads on their go to guns...

Billy Kemper has won the Jaws contest 3X...he rides quads from Pyzel and Glenn Pang...

World Surf League: What was the model and dimensions of Billy's board?
Jon Pyzel: It's my Crazy Train Quad model and the dims are 10'5 x 20.75 x 3.63 the volume is 80 liters.

WSL: You mentioned it was a quad set up. In recent years a lot of big wave surfers have been using four fins. Can you tell us about the pros/cons of the quad setup?
Pyzel: It was a Future Fin quad. I make probably 95% of my big wave boards quads because they let you get the most speed and control in heavy situations. Quads tend to surf more "round" and less pivoty than a thruster setup, and that suits big waves really well.

http://www.worldsurfleague.com/posts/166224/behind-the-board-2015-peahi-challenge-pyzel

STRETCH GUN CONTEMPORARY, PROVEN QUAD GUN

In 2005, a young Anthony Tashnick paddled a 9’4” bat tail quad gun into surfing history by winning the prestigious Men Who Ride Mountains contest at Mavericks. The board that Stretch shaped him was unconventional. It was shorter, had a wider tail, different lines and most obviously had one fin too many compared to the rest of the field.

The publicity of Tazzy’s win on a Stretch quad gun lit fire to the already snowballing movement of the four-fin being led by Nathan Fletcher. The Stretch Gun had every surfer re-thinking their perspective on what was to be considered a performance quad. The January 2006 issue of Surfing Magazine announced Stretch as Shaper of the Year and highlighted his fin theories, big wave designs and evolution of surfing.

Fast forward over a decade later and the quad movement is as strong as ever. There’s no place where quads have really pushed the limits more so than into the big wave frontier. The Stretch Gun is four-fin that showed the surfing world that quads are here to stay.

http://www.stretchboards.com/boards/surfboards/stretch-gun/

Ian Walsh and the biggest barrel ever ridden in competition...

What more can you tell us about that thinner-railed 10'4", with the swallowtail?

That’s just more or less the Jaws gun. It's kind of Ian's board. It's a 10’4″ that’s about 4 inches thick, and I took the rails down a little bit. It's a 4 fin with the swallowtail on it.

https://www.surfer.com/blogs/design-forum/what-he-rode-ian-walsh-and-his-christenson-gun/

You could go on and on...they are proven...end of story...

Coming from a windsurfing background if you want to go fast you use 1 fin.  The small trailer is there to prevent possible spinout.

I still follow modern wavesailing...this comment is simply not true...most of the world's top wave sailors are on multi-fin wavesailing boards...
So, you will definitely find quads riding Jaws at size...

Jason Polakow rode Jaws a couple of weeks ago during the WSL swell...as did Levi Siver...etc...

Continentseven: What gear did you use?

I was using a 4.8m Fly and a 88L custom Jaws quad. I don’t really like to go bigger than 4.8 as it gets hard to handle at Jaws as so much wind sucks up the face of the wave.

https://www.continentseven.com/jason-polakow-interview/ 

Levi Siver at Jaws on a Quattro Cube 86 POV clip...

[mrbig]

They sure do. Many use the McKee placement where the rears are close together.

Huge waves a whole universe into itself!

[bluemarlin04]

I feel like an idiot.

Was supposed to say 34 wide not 24 wide.

So I think the rears being 80/20 foil definitely did not help the situation along with them being the largest quad fins made.

Going to try get some smaller quad fins and run a trailer with it as well.

Is single fins faster? I’ve read they are because the least amount of drag but quads feel faster.

[Badger]

I did a search and found this.

"The single fin is great for holding a line but it doesn’t generate speed as easily as perhaps a twin fin, thruster, or quad. You have to take more of the energy that the wave gives you. Some people get on a single fin for the first time wonder why they can’t get up and make sections. Single fins are very fast once you get going but you’d have to take what the wave gives you and have less ability to generate your own speed."

http://comparesurfboards.com/learn/surfboard-fin-setups-pros-cons-single-twin-thruster-quad

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34" is extremely wide. That extra width is going to slow you down a lot. You need to get your back foot all the way back on the tail to get as much board out of the water as possible. That should make it turn a lot easier and also speed up the board if the wave is steep enough.

Blane Chambers has some good tips in this video.




12' x 34" x 5" is a huge board to be surfing. It must be close to 300 liters. I'd love to see some photos of the shape.

[SUP Sports ®]

I feel like an idiot.

Was supposed to say 34 wide not 24 wide.

Aloha bluemarlin04,
So, now we are diagnosing quite a different animal...;-)

No worries...we build and fin up surfing SUPs bigger than this all of the time...
We built the 11'11" x 33" x 5" One World Surfari shown below and it came in at 226.16 liters...this same model at your dims is 234.62 liters...nowhere close to the 300+ liter SUPs that we also build...

https://blog.surfingsports.com/2018/09/big-hammer-sups.html

We definitely need to see pics of the board...would also like to know it's volume and your weight...
From your description of the problem that you are having with it being "tracky" with quad fins...not being able to turn it at speed without getting bucked off...etc...it's got me thinking that perhaps the sidebiters could be parallel to the center box and not toed-in towards the nose...

There is an optimal fin set up for every board and rider style/preference...so, I need the additional bits of info to plug into the equation to help solve it...

Also, most people seem to recommend fins simply by stating vertical depth without mentioning surface area, planform, aspect ratio, materials/construction, flex characteristics, foils...etc...all of which are important parameters of a fin's performance...

My 9.25" FreeWeed design works very well on bigger boards...wide base for positive grip...progressive flex in the tip area...lots of surface area...used as a single or in conjunction with smaller front sidebiters...



Of course, there's usually more than one way to skin a cat...so, there could be a quad fin (or quad +nub) solution to your problem...;-)

https://supsports.com/sup-fins