Author Topic: 3-D printed foils.  (Read 3509 times)

surfcowboy

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2018, 11:09:28 PM »
Thx! Fusion360 too?

Admin

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2018, 12:47:09 AM »
Sure, what are the extensions?

PonoBill

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2018, 10:12:35 AM »
Pono, letís pull that thread. Are you saying that, for example, a mast should have a strong square tube center (or multiple tubes) and then a soft aerodynamic fairing maybe 3d printed or light fiberglass shell?

If so, whatís your proposed size for that to get the strength? I could see 3-4 1/2Ē square tubes being a mast but I canít see that being stronger than the current aluminum masts unless it was way thicker than they are now. Now, could a mast be an inch thick? Iíd like to know because then weíre getting to where we could have some real structural integrity. A 1Ē square, heavy walled aluminum square tube welded to a base plate would be damn hard to bend.

Now... where the number of my buddy with the machine shop? Iíve really been ignoring those race car builder friends for too long apparently. ;)

No, it doesn't need to be tubing. I started fooling around last spring with mold to make parts like this. The "tube" can be molded as a long U shaped element with a flange, cut to length and glued face to face, either with internal bracing or without if the walls are thick enough. The wing center section can be likewise molded, but the elements won't be identical, the bottom of the wing would be flat or cambered. The leading and trailing elements can be cast either as hard plastic or firm urethane and can be swapped out to change the chord or the foil coefficient.



Wingtips are molded or cast and plug into the ends.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 10:15:13 AM by PonoBill »
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Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2018, 04:26:55 PM »
Got it.

Iíve been thinking of molding one. Laying in some 1/4Ē wood or foam strips inside and wrapping carbon over them would create small U shapes out of carbon to strengthen things up. I totally agree with the leading and trailing edges being printed or molded. Seems to make total sense.

Speaking of this stuff, what do folks use to glue up molded pieces like 2 halves of a mast?

PonoBill

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2018, 06:59:33 PM »
Strongest is heat-curable single component epoxy but there are two-part epoxies that are strong enough.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUPeter

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2018, 04:28:38 AM »
I played with CAD design for foils with the hope of getting at least half a wing printed and then putting both halves together.  After deciding to instead use a carbon cord internal skeleton which was not possible with 3D printing, I dropped the project.   Boneless Wings or masts will be at risk for delamination due to the flexion of components under great stress.  The bonds between layers and between foam and glass and carbon weaken over time.  Having both an internal and external skeleton locks all layers together creating a stronger, albeit less flexible, wing.  My next wing is near 41 inches wide to be used in both surf and on downwinders.  Rugged is good!

surfcowboy

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2018, 08:52:15 PM »
Peter, I still canít grasp how youíre mounting these to the fuselage. Iíd love it if youíd be so kind as to update your thread or start one on this.

I think that printing the ribs could work well and CNC or laser cutting them would be so fast itís a no brainer.

Iím having doubts that my wing made of 9 layers of glass and then 4 layers of 6 Oz carbon as a patch around the bolt holes wonít just break when itís flexed from the ends. I need to test but Iím still not sure how these things take the stresses without being basically solid carbon. More will be revealed Iím sure.

Canít wait to see your next wing but please give us more detail on the mount point if you would.

SUPeter

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2018, 04:34:01 AM »
Sorry, Just saw this..  I will try to get you some pics.  Describing it alone would prove too difficult.  Hopefully I can do this soon as I am very busy as of late.

surfcowboy

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2018, 06:40:02 PM »
I feel ya man. Iím averaging 15 min a week on my project lol.

SUPeter

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2018, 12:56:55 PM »
I'm embarrassed to say I am having much difficulty in posting images of any quality in order to assist you in understanding how my wings and fuselage are constructed and how they fit together.  I am tempted to just text them to you or message them to you on FB.  I will keep trying but do not hold your breath.  If you have any suggestions that even an idiot can understand I will gladly accept them.  My image files on my iPhone are greater than the 1000KB limit.  I try cropping them till they are accepted but then you literally do not get the full picture.  I am obviously missing something and it is  probably very simple but my mind is simpler. 
Thanks for your patience, and I know there is an answer to this problem.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 01:11:24 PM by SUPeter »

PonoBill

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2018, 07:04:48 PM »
Before I converted one of my websites to SSL I was posting pictures to Facebook and then posting them here. I still do it for anything I want to post both places. I copy/paste the text as well as the pictures. Facebook pictures are easy to post--their uploader works very well, surprise, surprise-- and all of Facebook is SSL which makes the zone software happy. Just post your pictures to FB (in a private post if you like), then after you click "share" pop your pictures up full size. Left click and select "copy picture location". Then paste that to your post on the zone. Highlight the URL that gets pasted, click on the "insert image" icon and it will surround your image with [  img][  /img] without the spaces that I added to break the forum code parsing. And you're done. Here's a sample of what a facebook picture URL looks like:

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48358126_10156174900393668_4567620719122317312_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=bc0ea7564a9a7434b2a7f3c5b57e4422&oe=5CD62D1B

And how it looks with the image thingies around it (with spaces)
[  img]https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48358126_10156174900393668_4567620719122317312_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=bc0ea7564a9a7434b2a7f3c5b57e4422&oe=5CD62D1B[  /img]

and how it looks when you don't have spaces:

« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 07:15:39 PM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2018, 09:52:37 AM »
I'm embarrassed to say I am having much difficulty in posting images of any quality in order to assist you in understanding how my wings and fuselage are constructed and how they fit together.  I am tempted to just text them to you or message them to you on FB.  I will keep trying but do not hold your breath.  If you have any suggestions that even an idiot can understand I will gladly accept them.  My image files on my iPhone are greater than the 1000KB limit.  I try cropping them till they are accepted but then you literally do not get the full picture.  I am obviously missing something and it is  probably very simple but my mind is simpler. 
Thanks for your patience, and I know there is an answer to this problem.
Not sure if it will be of any help, but any image hosting site will accommodate your picture sharing, and all are really pretty to use.

I happen to now use Imgur in which I simply make a album of whatever category I'll be sharing my pics in (I post on other forums of different topics), load them into it, and then use their simple "Get Share Links" button to open a screen that has "BBCode (Forums)" in it...

... then just copy it there, and paste it here.

You can also very easily edit your images to size, and/or crop them to fit the smaller screens some are viewing on, so as they don't have to scroll around the image to see all of it in the native file sizes it was originally saved at....

...all with just a couple keystrokes, and in a few minutes.

Good luck, and hope to soon see your wings and fuselage construction and fit.
Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" & 6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

SUPeter

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2018, 02:10:47 PM »
Here we go again

SUPeter

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2018, 02:15:44 PM »
Ok! Im sure not going to remember how I just got that picture to load so bear with me.

This is a completely laced wing .  Epoxy is fully cured and each cord is 48K carbon tow.  (24 K x 2.)  The process is well described in the DIY foil section. The wing at this point is stiff but not yet strong enough.  There is a little flex and with too much force the cords will just rip through the ply.  But , yet, it is surprisingly strong.

SUPeter

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Re: 3-D printed foils.
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2018, 02:30:02 PM »
Picture 2

I then create carbon tube using 24K carbon tow by wrapping resin infused tow around a well waxed fuselage insert.  All directions must be applied.  longitudinal, diagonal, Ö..all direction until it is about 1/8" thick.  Let cure.  Place cured tube in vise and hammer out insert.  Mark exactly how insert and tube go together just in case your fuselage is not symmetrical.  My fuselage is 100% carbon.  I then make 1 longitudinal cut in the tube from end to end to open it up a bit and allow the fuselage insert to fit in easier.  I then placed 3 dimes in the cut , one at each end and one in the middle to help open up the tube just a little more.  Now the fuselage should slide in fairly easily.  Wet out some more 24 K tow and wrap another 1/8 inch around the portions of the tube where there are no dimes.  This will lock in the expanded tube size.  let cure.  Later take out the dimes and finnish the wrap.  Tube is done.  You will then go back to your wing and cut out the center rib/template and enough rigid carbon cord to fit the tube in to the wing.  Epoxy in place with dabs of high strength filler.  Make certain the fuselage , tube  and wing are in proper alignment before locking in position of tube.


Pleas disregard the use of microballoon filler throughout this wing.  This is an early wing.  I then realized that it need not be that strong and I could make it much lighter.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 03:13:18 PM by SUPeter »