Author Topic: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards  (Read 858 times)

Beasho

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Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« on: December 04, 2018, 07:36:39 AM »
In a Vacuum all moisture will evaporate.  There is no way around the physics of the Phase-Diagram.

The question is HOW TO BUILD A VACUUM for Board repair.

I am including a version that BEAN has shown.  It looks like this requires:

1.   A Vacuum Pump.  These seem to range from $45 to $500++
2.   A Pressure “Sump” to collect moisture
3.   Tubing
4.   Connectors
5.   Pressure Gauge

I was reluctant to invest in all of this 'stuff' OTHER than the fact that nothing keeps a board YOUNG like being light and spritely.  AND the only way boards start to suck is when the get loaded with water.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 07:43:10 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2018, 07:44:54 AM »
How Important is the PUMP? 

aka will the $75 pump on Amazon do the Job?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY0C5EZ/?coliid=I17K5889FQHZ93&colid=1UI7W46HW56MH&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

jrandy

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2018, 07:51:02 AM »
I have avoided 'those' type of pumps aka super good deals after hearing that they spit oil while they work.

I found a 40$ Gast at a surplus store it has been working well for me.

http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

Bean

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 08:10:21 AM »
How Important is the PUMP? 
aka will the $75 pump on Amazon do the Job?

I totally agree with jrandy.  My first vac pump was very similiar and would  get hot and spew oil mist within just a few miutes of operation.  A good surplus (Gast/Thomas) will run continuously for months w/o issue.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/diypondaeration/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

stoneaxe

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 11:10:37 AM »
I knew I'd be using mine for clamping woodworking and heavier duty use vac bagging so I built the Joe Woodworker with a Gast. I also have a portable workbench I made from some hollow core. I'm turning sections of it into vacuum clamps for doing sheet work. I think its worthwhile going a bit heavier duty.

Understanding how hard you are on boards and how often it's likely to be used I don't think this is something you want to skimp on....the Joe Woodworker Kit was a pleasant afternoon in the shop to build. Mine looks pretty much exactly as shown on the website. I built a shelf just for it on the wall of the garage.
https://joewoodworker.com/veneering/EVS/concept.htm
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 11:20:18 AM by stoneaxe »
Bob

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PonoBill

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 12:43:35 PM »
You can use the cheap pump, but it requires a bit of modification. The oil spitting is from the top vent. I tapped the vent hole (I've seen some that are already tapped) and replaced the plug with a vertical standpipe about two feet high made from PVC pipe. That by itself will solve 90 percent of the spitting since the oil will get trapped on the pipe wall and trickle back into the pump. But you still have warm air with some oil entrained. So I made a coffee can cyclone separator to add to the top. The air velocity isn't really high enough for the cyclone to be as effective as it is in venting race car engines with dry sumps, but it does the trick, probably just by impingement. No oil in the exhaust air.

After all that screwing around, I brought a proper pump to do vacuum bagging. I needed good control of the pump for that, and it's easier to set up a vacuum switch, unloader resevoir, check valve and accumulator that all fits into an easily stowable base if you get a gast or gast clone. I also got my kit from Joe The Woodworker.

If all you want to do is suck water out of boards, the cheap pump will work fine. You don't really need a trap--water flowing through those things is not a big deal--but a trap is super easy to make.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 12:46:20 PM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

eastbound

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 01:51:27 PM »
hard on boards?
who?

not our beasho?

bahahaha
Portal Barra 8'4"
Sunova Creek 8'10"
KeNalu Mana 82, xTuf, ergoT

Beasho

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 06:56:03 AM »
You can use the cheap pump, but it requires a bit of modification. . . . .
After all that screwing around, I brought a proper pump to do vacuum bagging. I needed good control of the pump for that, and it's easier to set up a vacuum switch, unloader resevoir, check valve and accumulator that all fits into an easily stowable base if you get a gast or gast clone. I also got my kit from Joe The Woodworker.

If all you want to do is suck water out of boards, the cheap pump will work fine. You don't really need a trap--water flowing through those things is not a big deal--but a trap is super easy to make.

TMI?  So here I am with this Hunking piece of industrial metal GAST pump. 

What next?  I don't want to do vacuum bagging BUT I am inclined to make the water trap. 

Looks like I need some:

1) Soft feet
2) Threaded Valve stems
3) On/Off switch
4) Power Cord
5) Wooden Platform
6) Tubing
7) Vacuum / Water Reservoir
8) Vacuum pressure meter (oil filled?)

I can add the fancy stuff later (I hope).

PonoBill

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 09:00:25 AM »
Cool. If you want to be able to control the vacuum and not have the pump run continuously you need more parts. A water trap is easy, any airtight container with an inlet and outlet on top and space below for the water. If you are going to suck water with a Gast pump then you definitely need a water trap. It's the cheapo oil spewing pumps that don't really need one. A big water trap can also double as a resin trap if you start doing vacuum bagging or diffusion.

If you want to manage the vacuum, you need a vacuum switch, accumulator and unloader system. If you're interested I can supply the details, but I think there's plenty of info available by Google search. Not expensive or hard to make, you have the most expensive part right there on your bench.

In all the talk about vacuum pumps, I forgot to mention the third option. If you have a reasonable-sized compressor you could use a vacuum venturi, Simple, cheap and noisy, but they work fine, and you don't need a water trap. The water just blows out.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 09:15:22 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jrandy

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 09:14:17 AM »
Beasho, that is an impressive pump. Careful with that capacitor...

From the picture of my rig earlier in thread:

Suck side:
pump
pipe nipple
t-fitting with gauge off one arm
pipe nipple, valve (useless for me in retrospect, skip this line...)
hose barb
tubing
hose barb w/ backing nut
trap lid and jar (mason type jar and 1 piece lid from bbq sauce+ beer koozie impact protection)
hose barb w/ backing nut
tubing
hose barb
vacuum disconnect (super sweet for vacuum bagging projects, beats taping in a mustard jar nozzle)
project

Blow side:
pump
pipe nipple
muffler
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 09:20:15 AM by jrandy »
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

PonoBill

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 09:17:31 AM »
Ummm, I wouldn't use an ordinary glass jar unless you're wearing Kevlar. You can make traps from PVC pipe, but use schedule 40.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 09:19:38 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jrandy

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 09:23:22 AM »
Comments about glass jar are heard. I guess I was making the assumption that if they can be boiled and sealed and cooled that they have enough snot for this application. The koozie may not be enough...
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

PonoBill

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 09:30:54 AM »
Kevlar Koozie?  It's only 14.7 pounds psi at most, and glass is surprisingly tough if the surface is perfect, and super strong in compression, but the tiniest defect or scratch makes all that strength go away, and the mouth of the jar is the weak spot. I blew out (or more precisely, blew in) my first accumulator by using cheap PVC pipe. Flying PVC is not quite as hazardous as flying glass.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Bean

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 10:13:27 AM »
For my water collection tank, I used 4" pvc as in the pic above.  Long and vertical works best for water seperation.  You could install baffles or run the inlet hose deeper into the tank, (but I have not).

The bottom of the pvc pipe is capped with a glue-on pvc cap.  There is a (cheap) brass valve threaded right into the bottom pvc cap for drainage.  For the top I used a threaded cap (cleanout adaptor). 

The inlet, oulet and vac-gauge nipples are all threaded right into the removable pvc cap.  There is also a simple air valve at the top which works fine for adjusting the vacuum. (You can find these fitting at Harbor Freight.) Just drill the right size hole, and the threads will tap themselves in.  The vac gauge is borrowed from my MightyVac, but you can find similar for less than 10 bucks.



 

PonoBill

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Re: Build a Vacuum System to Dry Boards
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 08:28:29 PM »
Should be fine if you're going to run the pump continuously. The little motor can't crank the pump against a vacuum and will burn out if you try to make it do that and it stalls, so if you have an accumulator (your water trap is effectively that) you need to make sure the pump never has to start with that water trap under vacuum. For the most part that's easy to do, in fact you'd have to do something odd, like crimp the inlet line, run the pump until it has a nice vacuum in the trap, then turn the pump off and back on before air leaks in. Unlikely. But that's exactly how vacuum systems work for vacuum bagging. Which is why there are a lot more parts involved.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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