Author Topic: Full Body Scans  (Read 1363 times)

Admin

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Full Body Scans
« on: November 20, 2018, 02:22:38 AM »
Amazing!  As resoltion increases and as scan reading becomes a bot function does anyone not see AI as the (near) future of diagnosis? 

https://newatlas.com/full-body-scan-explorer-medical-imaging/57303/

« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 09:44:05 AM by Admin »

Beasho

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Re: Full Body Sacns
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 06:43:23 AM »
Can I use SOME version of this to isolate and remove water from my board?

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,34217.0.html

PonoBill

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Re: Full Body Sacns
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 08:31:53 AM »
AI is the present of diagnosis, and it doesn't really need full body scans. Just not being bored gives it a big step up over Radiologists. That's some very cool tech, I'd expect the dynamic capability to be more important than full body, and I assume both dynamic scans and a full body PET scan takes a heck of a lot of injected radioactives, even with 40 times better sensitivity. Some people are going to shy away. As vaccines demonstrate, phobia trumps effectiveness.
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toolate

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 09:45:19 PM »
i take it you are unfamiliar with the term 'incidentaloma"
Fact is, resolution is already so good that chances are you WILL find something that you would have been better off not finding. The finding of it, and the removal of it might kill you whereas not knowing about it most of the time it would not have mattered one iota.

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 01:49:51 AM »
i take it you are unfamiliar with the term 'incidentaloma"
Fact is, resolution is already so good that chances are you WILL find something that you would have been better off not finding. The finding of it, and the removal of it might kill you whereas not knowing about it most of the time it would not have mattered one iota.

Time for a refill.  Your coffee is half empty.  :)  Scans of all types have been saving lives for years.  The beauty is that as we gain speed (one minute and no slices - the big advantage here over the previous PET scans) and as digitized high quality data from scans (of all types) over time become cross reference-able with high quality result data over time you see the future.  That is the perfect AI scenario and it has never been a possibility in medicine until now.  Quality data on both sides is they key and that soon to be massive data set is in its infancy.  Couple that with what is going on in robotic exploration and surgery (not to mention AI itself) and we are in for a very exciting 20 years. 

eastbound

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 06:41:37 AM »
wife's in a melanoma recogniton scan program at sloan kettering---they have her stand naked in a box armed with cameras that take billions of pixels of her skin (they shoot the bottom of her feet too!)--software seeks minor changes which are flagged and checked carefully via the usual means, incl biopsy

makes obvious sense

wife just lost her sister to melanoma after a courageous terrible fight---all the new genetic targeted therapies, immunotherapies, brutal intrathecal brain-catheterized delivery of IL2 (MD Anderson's last ditch to attempt to put down aggressive leptomeningeal disease)---brutal ride--very sad

respect the sun, folks, use sunblock religiously---and respect that youve been in the sun, and get your skin checked frequently by a competent dermatologist (not some jerkdoc who uses medicine as a loss leader to bring in people for expense exinsurance cosmetic work)

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PonoBill

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 08:18:52 AM »
Yes, the old full body scan fad using MRI was obviously flawed and rejected by most radiologists and epidemiologists as unnecessary and ineffective for useful diagnosis--too much stuff to look at, no clear relationship between detection and cure. We probably have anomalies and even cancers occasionally that either disappear on their own, beaten by the immune system or simply don't matter. But the direction being taken in diagnosis is indeed interesting and potentially very fruitful. Even reasonably democratic since the way forward is massive data comparison, and that means scanning a lot of people--if not everyone willing to be scanned.
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toolate

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 11:59:20 AM »
you might want to check what is in that cup you are drinking...
Can you show me good evidence that whole body scans save lives?

i take it you are unfamiliar with the term 'incidentaloma"
Fact is, resolution is already so good that chances are you WILL find something that you would have been better off not finding. The finding of it, and the removal of it might kill you whereas not knowing about it most of the time it would not have mattered one iota.



Time for a refill.  Your coffee is half empty.  :)  Scans of all types have been saving lives for years.  The beauty is that as we gain speed (one minute and no slices - the big advantage here over the previous PET scans) and as digitized high quality data from scans (of all types) over time become cross reference-able with high quality result data over time you see the future.  That is the perfect AI scenario and it has never been a possibility in medicine until now.  Quality data on both sides is they key and that soon to be massive data set is in its infancy.  Couple that with what is going on in robotic exploration and surgery (not to mention AI itself) and we are in for a very exciting 20 years.

goodfornothin

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 12:18:17 PM »
Id like to see that as well

PonoBill

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 03:23:27 PM »
No such evidence, both for the reasons above and because far too few whole body scans at far too low resolution (MRI level) exist to provide the data. That's a fine reason to dismiss claims about current tech, but doesn't have much to do with new developments and future tech.

The old stuff was designed to separate scared geezers from their money. It worked OK for that, but not much else. One of my late, great housemates was Dr. Charlie Hatchett, one of the smartest and most down to earth people I ever met. Charlie was a resident radiologist who decided just a few months from the end of his residency that the last thing he wanted to do was sit in a room and look at images, so he bailed and founded a bunch of doc in the boxes and invented stuff. We talked a lot about diagnostic imaging and what it could and couldn't do. He said dynamic images would be a big deal, whole body imaging was a farce (at that time--about 35 years ago) and artificial intelligence and computer modeling from lots of data would free a lot of good docs from drudgery.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 03:28:56 PM by PonoBill »
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Admin

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2018, 02:49:22 AM »
These scans are 20 to 30 seconds (vs 30-40 minutes) are single scan at a fraction of the radiation and offer much higher levels of detail and can watch movement of substances through the body (and that is today).  This is just one type of scan but as each type improves and that data is increasingly available and shareable you have a new mode of medicine.


toolate

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 04:31:31 PM »
could be, only time will tell to be sure. but if i had a nickel for every claim of revolutionary advance  in medicine...


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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2018, 03:04:59 AM »
could be, only time will tell to be sure. but if i had a nickel for every claim of revolutionary advance  in medicine...

Zoomed in, I can understand that skepticism but consider that the X ray was just over 100 years ago and before that we were blind without cutting.  Here is a history of the PET scan.  I think it shows an interesting and accelerating progression. 

https://www.doemedicalsciences.org/timeline.shtml

PonoBill

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Re: Full Body Scans
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 03:49:57 PM »
The problem with current medical advances is that people have become used to things that are fairly magical, which don't seem to do quite enough. We can easily detect cancers of all kinds, but success in dealing with them is mixed. True for most diseases. It's unfortunate and dangerous that people mistrust western medicine so much, and are so ready to rely on Cumin or pomegranates, or chanting, or whatever. When we have another flu epidemic of the virulence of the Spanish Flu (it's when not if) we'll lose a staggering number of people. and it won't be the very old and the very young, it will be people in the prime of life with good immune systems. The only approach that could stave that off is vaccination, and we know how that's going. Even with a substantial percentage of the population vaccinated and extraordinary good luck in having vaccines that work with the strain, we would lose one hell of a lot of people.

Of course, we lose half a million per year now and it doesn't seem to cause a ripple as large as whatever the Kardashians are doing lately.
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