Author Topic: On your knees, or on your feet?  (Read 5888 times)

Badger

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2018, 04:00:01 PM »
I have a much better chance of getting over the whitewater standing than I do on my knees, but if I can't stand up on the board then knees are my only choice.

My back, neck and shoulders can not handle paddling prone. That's what got me into standup in the first place.
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PonoBill

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2018, 04:12:00 PM »
Those guys wouldn't have gotten anywhere on their knees. If you're on your feet, on a board that is stable enough for you, that kind of whitewater is fairly easy. Whitewater only has your feet and lower legs to push against instead of your body, shaped like a sea anchor, and if you're on your knees you have limited ability to shift your weight. I'm not particularly stable or a particularly strong paddler and I could have gone through that water easily--it looked like a standard Ho'okipa Lanes situation. There wasn't a channel but there were non-breaking sections on every wave. I found myself picking my way through. You get a better perspective from the warm and dry cliff, but they should have seen it, they obviously didn't, and they weren't going to get out on boards they couldn't stand on.

I was foiling today in the Harbor, and an older Hawaiin SUP surfer that I greatly respect was coming out through the middle of one poinding set wave after another. He was on a 9'8" Foote Triton, and he slid through that head-high whitewater like a knife through butter. Step one--get a board you can stand on.
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Area 10

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2018, 04:27:02 PM »
Those guys wouldn't have gotten anywhere on their knees. If you're on your feet, on a board that is stable enough for you...
Your first point is wrong IMO - sprinting on your knees is faster than sprinting standing up (and then you jump to your feet for going over the waves), as long as you can do it. From what you have said many times about your physical limitations, it sounds like maybe you canít, comfortably, so maybe you have not experienced this. It does take practice. And kneeling also allows you to be more stable on a smaller board, and saves energy, all of which would have helped those guys greatly.

But your second point, that getting out is a lot easier if you are on a board you find very stable, and that a stable board can allow you to get out with the ease and speed that you could only do on a smaller board when on your knees, is a good one. I guess itís down to whether you want to trade small-board wave nimbleness for ease of getting out. Some people will go to any lengths to try to be Kai.

stoneaxe

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2018, 04:46:13 PM »
I think a combination of the two is called for there.....they missed their best opportunity....right at the start if they had sprinted on their knees over a few and then jumped up.....(use the wave Luke)Ö...they were out. They screwed around prone paddling and missed it. Success 1/2 the time means waiting for the right moment to go.
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TallDude

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2018, 05:29:58 PM »
Success 1/2 the time means waiting for the right moment to go.
This is what I was thinking. I (almost) always have a strategy to paddling out in bigger waves. There are lulls between sets. Patience is needed at times like that. That outside set hit just as the more skilled guy was about to make it. The guy stuck on the inside wasn't even prone paddling anymore after a few hits. He was just floating. Time to rest is once you get outside. He'd thrown in the towel pretty early. When I'm prone paddling I roll my board on edge as I go thru the white water. If I'm on my feet and don't make it up and over the wash, I'll still kick my board over the top. If the white water is even bigger, I'll jump off, spin my board towards shore and and use my tail handle. Funny how you get it in your mind that you SUS a really low volume board because of a few ego reinforcing glassy smaller days. Then it sucks big. With all that moving water a few more inches in width and a little more volume sure helps.

supthecreek

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2018, 08:12:59 PM »
That actually looked fairly easy to me....
Decent interval, so you could get up some speed between waves.
I would 100% dig hard on my knees..... I can go way faster that way and not waste time with my "slow getting to my feet" issues.

1st off they fought the rip
it was going to their left and they kept trying to keep right.
They should have paddled hard as hell slightly left, to get the most boost from the refraction and rip together.

Object?  Get far enough offshore, that when you take a set on the head, it doesn't push you all the way in.
I kick my board over, then go deep, to minimize losing ground.
Then hop up and paddle out easily in between sets.

Heck, even standing those guys couldn't paddle fast enough or long enough to make any headway.

Old men always get out easier.... young guys try to overpower it, old guys sneak between peaks.

ha ha, I actually have a video about that..... I should finalize it and post.

shots from last weekend:

PonoBill

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2018, 08:26:34 PM »
From what you have said many times about your physical limitations, it sounds like maybe you canít, comfortably, so maybe you have not experienced this.

There's no question that I can't get up quickly enough to be doing anything significant on my knees. Any slower and I'll need a walker railing. I can paddle pretty well on my knees--I paddle six-man canoe all summer--but I'd rather be on my feet all the way out. I can see where an unbroken section is likely to be and head for that, I can see what the wave behind the wave I'm facing is going to do. And I'm not that much faster on my knees. I haven't found that speed is the solution--picking the best line is.

Most important is being on your feet going through the whitewater, and not wobbling around when you need to be picking up speed and getting the timing of your paddle strokes right--you have to be reaching over the foam when it hits your feet. If I staggered to my feet just before the whitewater arrived I couldn't do that.

In this case I'd certainly say: Different strokes...
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seadart

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2018, 09:14:30 PM »
The video appears to be in the Solana Beach / Cardiff Area,  at first I thought it was just south of Swammy's.  There aren't any surfers out which leads me to think they picked a really bad spot/day to paddle out.  There are two spots within about a half mile of  where the video was filmed where it is much easier to paddle out on a NW or  W  swell even with chop or huge swell. So it kind of seems moot about feet or knees and more a question of them choosing a bad spot and a bad strategy at the spot they chose.  And yes it looks like they don't know what they are doing. 

 If you try to paddle out on your knees in big surf/ foam piles  and aim directly for the waves at 90 degrees you are likely to think paddling on your knees doesn't work.  Paddlers who come to SUP who have strong kayak surfing or whitewater  paddling techniques know how to quarter the wave, sweep the bow using the foam, pivot on the wave crest  and edge the board to use rocker and the wave to keep upright... you can't do that standing up.  I guess my point is that a lot of people who say paddling on knees doesn't work, don't know how  to do it, and don't have good ability to sink the rails while kneeling.  I think it's best to know both standing and kneeling and use what fits the waves, winds and chop.

supsean

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2018, 11:09:16 AM »
I remember seeing this at the time... then, it popped up on my recent list. (K'rist.. YouTube knows how I get outside, not just what I watch!)




feel like a sup handle would have helped these guys out a bit to keep from getting killed by the white water--miraculous how holding that handle keeps you from getting pushed back.  Quite a slog either way...glad it wasn't me being video'd...
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Bean

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2018, 11:52:25 AM »
They are on relatively small SUP's - I almost got the sense that they had a bet going, to see if they could paddle out without kneeling.

The key to paddling out is timing, location and total comittment.

JEG

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2018, 01:38:09 PM »
I do both knee and stand up but personally I wouldn't go out in that condition as above vid  ;D

PonoBill

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2018, 02:41:49 PM »
I'm with Creek, that didn't look as hard as those guys were making it. There are lots of place in Hawaii and the Oregon Coast where that would be considered on the easy side. IMHO Oregon is tough to get out in general, almost always three different swell directions and a mix of periods. If you can't punch through head high breaking waves and stay up with two different waves shoving on you, then there isn't much hope except for a few deeply sheltered breaks like Indian Beach and Short Sands that filter out some of the nonsense. Those waves were consistent and came from one direction. If you look at the video with an eye to picking out the best places to take each wave you'll see a good path. The smooth spots move around as the rebound swell and current makes deep spots. Very often the deep areas with minimal whitewater will also be outrushing current--a free ride to the outside. Those guys were almost avoiding the easy way.
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stoneaxe

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2018, 11:42:31 AM »
That wasn't that hard....I'd have made that standing all the way at the beginning of the vid. It got a bit sketchy later but even that wasn't impossible....nice payoff outside from the look of it to me.
Bob

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eastbound

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2018, 06:30:08 AM »
agreed--didnt seem a particularly tough paddle out to me--what creek said + I will jump way over the top at times and let my waistleash retain the board--i use knees often in the work zone--i find i get on and get going faster--sometimes 2 quick prone strokes are all there's time for, but enough to get over--you do what you gotta do and what works--so much is the read and not fighting/wasting energy--older wiser more fearful of hits, i am surprised at how i slide through shit dry or close these days

really dont like a big solid perfect hit at my fair age--tho it can be funny when you realize that you are just in the perfect wrong spot for a big set---oh well, here we go......better we take a bit of air.......bye bye.....
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PonoBill

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Re: On your knees, or on your feet?
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2018, 08:53:40 AM »
The video was well named.
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