Author Topic: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles  (Read 2356 times)

stoneaxe

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2018, 04:01:41 PM »
Not sure I could go vegan...love meat too much...but we already cook fresh...don't buy much processed. Our downfall is pasta and dairy....I also like sugar and salt... :P. We need to do better for sure. We've cut way back on going out, both dietary and cost cutting reasons. Tough with so many great restaurants around that we like.
Bob

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PonoBill

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2018, 06:51:48 PM »
Sugar, yeah, you have to cut as much as possible. The less you use, the less you miss it and any dessert made with the normal amount of sugar is gross. Salt, you probably don't have to worry about. The effect of salt on people who don't have high blood pressure is very small, and there's no real evidence that it causes hypertension (in fact it might even be positive!), it's just a factor for people who have high blood pressure. Even then it's pretty small. The medical research is all over the map. I read up on it extensively when my doc told me I needed to start taking medication. I asked my doctor if I could just cut out salt and get off the meds. He said "unlikely" and pointed me at the INTERSALT study, which I read (not fun). Bottom line, if you don't have high blood pressure, don't worry about it, and if you do, then maybe cut salt some but take your meds. It looks like adding a little potassium (not too much, it can be tough on your kidneys) could have a bigger result than cutting back on salt. It could well be that the people trying to cut salt and using LITE salt are skewing test results by taking potassium in their salt substitute.

Or you can just google "salt and blood pressure" and read a few thousand conflicting reports and opinions
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eastbound

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2018, 08:58:47 AM »
thx pb,

the challenge of reading the intersalt study report would certainly raise my BP! or perhaps lower it, were i to be kindly allowed to fall asleep!

i was aware of the study and its alleged flaws--and ive poked around the framingham study, which some say is also flawed---and im not naive to the fact that there are many financially interested parties to the sodium/BP controversy---my take is that there is little potential harm in not adding salt to foods, and there may be upsied for someone like me, who has inexplicable mildly high BP--and if you just dont add salt, a solid day's typical food wont bring you past 1500mg, if not the 1000mg i target

i have always been skeptical of urgency that someone like me shd be taking meds for BP--i am fit, not overweight, very active and healthy (knock wood)--i have always eaten a reasonable high quality diet, incl mostly unprocessed plant-based foods--and my bp runs typically, un treated, in the high 130's to low 140's, by high 80's to low 90's--and my echocardio and chest scans so no bulging arteries or anything else of concern--calcium score slight under mean for my age--near perfect cholesterol and other blood measures--so i just tried to live well and ignore

finally my dr insisted on meds--what compelled me was her comment that the data is clear as a bell that, for those in US who can afford top med care (certainly not everyone--she doesnt accept insurance, for ex) much of the increased life expectancy of the last 25 years can be credited to the increased treatment of high BP--and she recommends not adding salt to food, despite the controversy

i trust her. i get what i pay for with her (lots more than an insurer would). she takes her time with me and she knows me personally after hours in her office over the years. and she's nice, and she's reasonable, not dogmatic, etc---but what confirmed for me that i shd respect her reco's was the result of my daughter's stalking her---turns out she was numbe one in her class at Penn med school---sha can only have been one of the very brightest in her generation of young doctors--so, much as i consider self-advocacy critical with health care, if idont have good info that contradcits her, i do as i am told

given our age here on the zone, and the prevalence of high bp, id bet a good number of us are on bp meds and considering same issues with sodium diet doctors, and the medical indu$trial con complex!
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PonoBill

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2018, 10:06:20 PM »
I think you're doing the right thing, but there's no way to be sure. For myself, I limit salt and take the meds. On meds my BP is low normal, off them it's the low end of high. Not a huge difference but I've looked at the data for strokes and MI vs. BP.  High correlation. Very.
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stoneaxe

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2019, 05:14:04 PM »
Bob

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RideTheGlide

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2019, 05:51:33 PM »
From last May but 1st time I've seen it mentioned.
https://bigthink.com/news/mit-study-24-hour-fasting-regenerates-stem-cells-doubles-metabolism

The article makes a wild leap with the doubled metabolism claim; that's nowhere in the study. It says the metabolic activity switches from burning carbs to burning fat.

Fasts and lowered calories have been shown to have benefits beyond weight loss in a few studies. Practicing occasional fasting and/or restricted calories is more common in healthy 90+ year olds than it is in the general population but it is hard to make a strong case for causation versus correlation.
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stoneaxe

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2019, 08:36:03 PM »
I should probably read the study and not just the headlines.....:)

I've developed moderately high BP of late...last year or so....maybe stress related...going nuts there for awhile. I was always in a narrow range 110/65 to 120/80....now I'm typically 145/85 or somewhere around that but that's with meds. Without it had jumped to 160/90. I used to use a lot of salt. I never add it to cooked food now and avoid or cut way back when cooking. Going out now is different. Some restaurants I just can't do....the chains that pound the salt so you'll order drinks....I can hardly taste the food for the salt.


Bob

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ukgm

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2019, 11:57:06 PM »
I've been playing at intermittent fasting for some time with modest success, or maybe huge success since I haven't gained any weight despite a somewhat lower level of exercise. But the slow progress caused me to abandon some of the effort--really stupid, I didn't get heavy in a month, it took years. I recently came across two articles in Quartz that have me interested again, in part because they have a bit of useful data behind them, but also because they simply make a lot of sense. I'm going to get serious again.

https://qz.com/1419105/a-diet-guru-explains-why-you-should-eat-dinner-at-2pm/

https://qz.com/quartzy/1428139/a-fasting-experts-tips-for-making-it-to-your-next-meal/

By the way, I found this video very helpful and sensible on the subject (particularly someone like me trying it for the first time).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1249&v=LLVf3d0rqqY

ukgm

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2019, 12:09:24 AM »
Try doing intermittent fasting when training for actual performance and you'll realise it's a fools errand real fast. It's well cited now as a means to keep you slimmer but if you want to get the best physically out of yourself I would really not recommend it.

It's quite amusing when you find the need to call yourself out. With further reading, I've learnt I may well now be wrong.

The issue there (which the video link I posted above explains clearly) is that too many of us (me included) view 'fasting' and 'dieting' synonymously. The video explains that its primarily about food intake timing. From people I've actually spoken to about this more recently, the key for those athletically inclined is to ensure you're eating enough to support your training within the non-fasting window and then time your training accordingly. For many that struggle with fasting - they just aren't eating enough or of the right stuff. In other words, we need to be almost having two separate fasting discussions i.e. one regarding weight loss and one regarding health benefits when training athletically.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 12:20:03 AM by ukgm »

RideTheGlide

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2019, 07:42:56 AM »
Try doing intermittent fasting when training for actual performance and you'll realise it's a fools errand real fast. It's well cited now as a means to keep you slimmer but if you want to get the best physically out of yourself I would really not recommend it.

It's quite amusing when you find the need to call yourself out. With further reading, I've learnt I may well now be wrong.

The issue there (which the video link I posted above explains clearly) is that too many of us (me included) view 'fasting' and 'dieting' synonymously. The video explains that its primarily about food intake timing. From people I've actually spoken to about this more recently, the key for those athletically inclined is to ensure you're eating enough to support your training within the non-fasting window and then time your training accordingly. For many that struggle with fasting - they just aren't eating enough or of the right stuff. In other words, we need to be almost having two separate fasting discussions i.e. one regarding weight loss and one regarding health benefits when training athletically.

I am not very afraid of being wrong; I am too impatient to always be right.

I think they are very different also. I think as far as dieting goes, it's whatever floats your boat. Losing weight requires you to consume fewer calories than you burn in a day which really isn't natural. Survival instinct isn't just about fight or flight; it's also about not starving to death, which you will eventually do if you never eat enough to provide energy for your activities. So whatever works best for you to overcome the natural urge to eat more is good.

Health benefits in training is a much more complicated one; I don't know if it is possible to do a truly subjective study. There are so many variables in determining whether training went better for a group that ate certain foods at certain times fared better in their training.
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PonoBill

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2019, 06:22:10 PM »
I feel like I'm not doing enough if I don't screw up in a substantial way at least twice a day. I'm way ahead today, I should bank a couple of major fuckups for tomorrow.

Seriously, I think the only way to be consistently right is to be really stupid. The kind of dense stupidity that lets no hint of doubt enter. So congratulations UK.
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Bean

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Re: Two Interesting Weight Control Articles
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2019, 07:43:03 AM »
What's the sense in being stupid if you can't show it off once in a while?