Author Topic: revisiting the reverse duck dive  (Read 5250 times)

PonoBill

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2018, 08:08:32 PM »
People are just weird about tradition, even when the tradition is a few years old. I couldn't get Billo Foote to even TRY a tail handle. Most experienced surfers want nothing to do with them. It's a badge of honor thing. No one wants to try waist leashes. People constantly say to me "what is that, a tail". Where's the magic in an ankle leash? Why would anyone assume it's better just because it's what you can easily buy?

I see people on big boards with massive volume wearing a skinny, old longboard leash with a worn out ankle cuff. I just wonder what the fuck they're thinking.
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supsean

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2018, 07:50:04 AM »
Has anybody thought about reaching out to the actual board manufacturers to have an enhanced tail kick? It seems quite easy to create a little finger ridge since they manufacture the deck pads anyway?  (hint hint supthecreek / Sunova)
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supsean

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2018, 07:59:32 AM »
so is the consensus tail handle or no and just use stomp pad?

My takeaway/consensus is:
1.  Tail handles are great as long as you grip it so that your fingers can release and don't get stuck.
2.  A modified stomp pad is great as long as you can get traction with your fingers.
3.  Stomp pads, especially with a little finger lip, can be helpful, but not as good as the first two.

To avoid hurting yourself, read the earlier, rather long, topic: https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=25430.90 
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Badger

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2018, 08:33:22 AM »
Has anybody thought about reaching out to the actual board manufacturers to have an enhanced tail kick? It seems quite easy to create a little finger ridge since they manufacture the deck pads anyway?  (hint hint supthecreek / Sunova)

Stoneaxe designed this one and presented it to NSI but so far they don't seem interested. I like it.

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,25430.msg282223.html#msg282223


Pretty sure Rick (Supthecreek) hasn't converted over to the tail handle faith yet. I highly doubt Sunova would go for the idea. It has to start somewhere though. If just one major manufacturer would incorporate a tail handle onto their boards, it might take off. Just like Naish and their the ledge style carrying handle. That was a total game changer. Now every manufacturer has a variation of it.

.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 08:50:19 AM by Badger »
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supsean

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2018, 12:53:43 PM »

Stoneaxe designed this one and presented it to NSI but so far they don't seem interested. I like it.

I saw that, and I wish it would have been developed.

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,25430.msg282223.html#msg282223

Pretty sure Rick (Supthecreek) hasn't converted over to the tail handle faith yet. I highly doubt Sunova would go for the idea. It has to start somewhere though. If just one major manufacturer would incorporate a tail handle onto their boards, it might take off. Just like Naish and their the ledge style carrying handle. That was a total game changer. Now every manufacturer has a variation of it.

.

I know. It is such a small tweak to an already existing tail pad that they are manufacturing. I guess that is why I hinted to Rick, as he has already a board named after him, (I just saw on the Australian Surf FX surf shop video that it is the most popular Sunova board...)

It is true, however, that Rick (Supthecreek) is conspicuously absent from this topic. But he uses the Great Whites clear the water of pesky surfers around him... :
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supthecreek

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2018, 03:06:28 PM »
Following silently...
I have no urge to "convert" 

I use many techniques to navigate busy line-ups and OH waves... and I am happy with them.
Since this is a tail handle thread, I am happy to observe and listen. Convince me  ;)













Dusk Patrol

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2018, 03:17:39 PM »
Are you all using the tail handle
in shallow water (standable)?
or
in deep water?
or
both?
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stoneaxe

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2018, 03:34:45 PM »
Both....but standable I smash waves with my back....:)

« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 03:40:44 PM by stoneaxe »
Bob

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Badger

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2018, 03:38:23 PM »
It doesn't matter how deep or shallow the water is. It works either way just the same. I only use the technique with waves that I can't easily just push the board over.
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stoneaxe

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2018, 03:42:43 PM »
What Badger said....If I'm being lazy I'll walk out chest deep pushing my board in front of me....push the tail down and do a superman over the foamballs until I see a lull.
Bob

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PonoBill

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2018, 03:44:58 PM »
Since this is a tail handle thread, I am happy to observe and listen. Convince me  ;)

Yeah, right, you and Billy Foote. And when I convince you to use a tail handle you'll probably start surfing in a tutu as well.
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1tuberider

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2018, 06:40:04 AM »
Another denier.  For one I don't often surf double overhead or larger and if I did my
board would be a leash distance away when critical.
For another, I like to go up and over standing. Very satisfying to make it.
And if its to big to climb over I usually wait for the lull.
I would image most surfers who started before leashes were used,
probably are not seeing the need.

If it makes you feel safer, go for it. Its your choice.

Leashes are different because they do make me and others feel safer.
One yank and my board is back where it belongs and it did not take out
the kids in the lineup.   

Halloween is coming. Tutu anyone.

PonoBill

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2018, 07:18:48 AM »
Well of course you go up and over standing. A tail handle is just a way to control a high-volume board when you're in the water and something lumpy is going to run you down. No one would put one on a shortboard or a potato chip longboard. Maybe a thick longboard would benefit from it--lifeguards seem to think so. The surprising ability to get mauled by a big breaking wave and have it come to nothing is mostly a secondary benefit.

Bill Foote says the same thing--"if I'm going to get worked I want to be as far from my board as I can be." That sounds rational until you remember that you're tied to something that has a lot of ways to clobber or stab you and when it's at the end of a leash you have NO control over what it does. 99 percent of the time it's downstream of you, and that's the way the wave is going to toss you. My worst surfing injury so far was from my board hitting me when I didn't bother to grab the handle.

But most important is the simple fact that I don't know of anyone who has tried one for any length of time who has decided not to use them.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 07:22:04 AM by PonoBill »
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WhatsSUP

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2018, 07:52:57 AM »
I have tail handles on my boards and generally think they're okay......However, one thing that I've noticed on more than several occasions is that at times the board will:

a) will jack up (the back end were I'm holding it) which draws my body even closer to the board and the fins rise vertically out of the water coming precariously close to my head as I'll looking in on the beach, or

b) it yanks the snot out of my arm/shoulder as the wave passes...

I suspect both are operator error!!!  Am I'm simply not pushing deep enough on the tail?  If that's the case then my body would be drawn in even closer (i.e., torso over the tail) to the board, no?

Appreciate some clarity cuz I'm not doing something quite right at times......

Thanks
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TallDude

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Re: revisiting the reverse duck dive
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2018, 09:28:12 AM »
It's just an option that's there when you need it. If you've never used one then you don't know how useful it is. If you're surfing outer reefs, it's nice to have another option to preventing a potentially very long swim. If you surf sandy bottom shore breaks, then you may not understand the consequences of losing your board a 1000 yards offshore. There is a technique which varies depending on the size of the board. First of all, when you sink the tail, your legs tend to float up towards the fins. It's one of the things I think about when I'm pushing the tail down. I usually spread my legs apart right as I push down. As long as I have my hand or hands depending on the size of the wave, on the board, I can control the tail and fin situation. If the waves are small, I'll grab it with one hand while I'm doing a side stroke and just kind of let the tail float up over the wave. I'm just dragging it with maybe a little push down.

 As the waves get bigger, I start making sure my back is square to the wave and my board is at a 90 degree angle to the just breaking wave, or white water. Just before it hits, I'll pull down and do the butt sink with one or both hands on it the tail. If the pressure increases to where it's stressing my fingers, I let go. In OH or bigger , I'll grab the handle and tail firmly with both hands and sink my butt really hard. You'd be amazed how well it works. These are not paddle up and over the white water size waves, and it works. Again, if you feel your fingers getting twisted, or stressed to an unsafe place, let go and let your leash do it's thing. The thing is, usually by the time you let go, your board has already been dragged past the impact part of the wave, so you get less tug and drag.
If I'm paddling out in bigger waves than I can stand up and paddle out, I'll prone and roll through -up and over the on coming white water. I can keep my momentum going for the most part, and stay the course. The tail handle is like Pono says, good for when you're in the impact zone (oh crap! zone) with no momentum. You turn around and have just enough time to point your board towards the beach, grad the tail handle and sink. Then you come up in the same place with the board still pointing to the beach, ready to do it all over again til the set passes.   
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:31:48 AM by TallDude »