revisiting the reverse duck dive

[Badger]

I have tail handles on my boards and generally think they're okay......However, one thing that I've noticed on more than several occasions is that at times the board will:

a) will jack up (the back end were I'm holding it) which draws my body even closer to the board and the fins rise vertically out of the water coming precariously close to my head as I'll looking in on the beach, or

b) it yanks the snot out of my arm/shoulder as the wave passes...

I suspect both are operator error!!!  Am I'm simply not pushing deep enough on the tail?  If that's the case then my body would be drawn in even closer (i.e., torso over the tail) to the board, no?

Appreciate some clarity cuz I'm not doing something quite right at times......

Thanks

You are definitely doing something wrong.

The tail should not jack up at all and there should be no concern of the board hitting your face. There should be no pull on your arms or shoulders although it does happen on rare occasions. If you feel the board pulling just let go.

Don't push down on the tail so far that it gets completely vertical. A slight angle is okay. Keep your arms bent at all times.

It sounds like you might be pushing down way too early. You want to push down on the tail the last second before the wave hits you and continue to hold it down as the waves passes by. The wave should be hitting you just as the board is going up.

Just float normally in the water when you push down. Use both hands to push down, one atop the other.

In overhead waves, I sometimes feel the impact when the whitewater hits my back but it's nothing major and no big deal.

.

[SUPJorge]

How many people here have tried a well-thought out handle and afterwards decided to go without?

Pono is right when he says "But most important is the simple fact that I don't know of anyone who has tried one for any length of time who has decided not to use them." The utility they provide can't be replaced. I can't think of a reason not to have one.

[Area 10]

I have tail handles on my boards and generally think they're okay......However, one thing that I've noticed on more than several occasions is that at times the board will:

a) will jack up (the back end were I'm holding it) which draws my body even closer to the board and the fins rise vertically out of the water coming precariously close to my head as I'll looking in on the beach, or

b) it yanks the snot out of my arm/shoulder as the wave passes...

I suspect both are operator error!!!  Am I'm simply not pushing deep enough on the tail?  If that's the case then my body would be drawn in even closer (i.e., torso over the tail) to the board, no?

Appreciate some clarity cuz I'm not doing something quite right at times......

Thanks

You are definitely doing something wrong.

The tail should not jack up at all and there should be no concern of the board hitting your face. There should be no pull on your arms or shoulders although it does happen on rare occasions. If you feel the board pulling just let go.

Don't push down on the tail so far that it gets completely vertical. A slight angle is okay. Keep your arms bent at all times.

It sounds like you might be pushing down way too early. You want to push down on the tail the last second before the wave hits you and continue to hold it down as the waves passes by. The wave should be hitting you just as the board is going up.

Just float normally in the water when you push down. Use both hands to push down, one atop the other.

In overhead waves, I sometimes feel the impact when the whitewater hits my back but it's nothing major and no big deal.

.

What are you doing with your paddle if one hand is on top of the other with both on the board?

[Dusk Patrol]

I have to say I have never really given this much thought, but now will try it. It's better than my pushing the board over with an instinctual twist of the body back towards shore so as to not get a face full of foam.

[WhatsSUP]

More I'm thinking about this the more I'm thinking that I'm pushing the tail down too deep.....this would explain the tail moving in a vertical plane where the fins break the surface rising up in front of my face.  Intuitively this makes sense; the white water hits the front of the board with force and in turn the board acts as a lever and the tail moves up (vertically).  Will try to dip the tail slightly below horizontal and not go so deep to see if this makes a difference - if it doesn't then I don't have a clue what ya'll are talking about! 

[Badger]

A-10, I hold the tail handle in my right hand with the paddle in my left hand on top of my right hand.

I usually hold the paddle straight across, parallel to the wave or maybe at a slight angle. It doesn't seem to make much difference. The paddle has no drag in the turbulence.

.

[Badger]

More I'm thinking about this the more I'm thinking that I'm pushing the tail down too deep.....this would explain the tail moving in a vertical plane where the fins break the surface rising up in front of my face.  Intuitively this makes sense; the white water hits the front of the board with force and in turn the board acts as a lever and the tail moves up (vertically).  Will try to dip the tail slightly below horizontal and not go so deep to see if this makes a difference - if it doesn't then I don't have a clue what ya'll are talking about! 

The fins should be pointing away from you and toward shore, not toward your face. The tail and fins stay below the water and never break free of the surface. I can't even think of how you would go about making the fins come out of the water during this procedure.

The whitewater never touches the front half of the board. The nose is supposed to be pointing up, out of the water.

It's very simple. Don't overthink it.

Step 1. Board pointing toward shore with your back to the wave.

Step 2. Push down on tail one second before wave hits you.

It can be done with any size board. Even 14 footers.

.

[WhatsSUP]

Thanks Badger......I think I need a kook cam setup to try and capture what I'm trying to explain cuz my board is pointing to the beach and my back is to the incoming wave. When I say the "fins break the surface rising up in front of my face" I mean to say my body and board are facing the beach and the back/tail of the board rises up vertically exposing the backside of the fins (to the front of my body which is always oriented toward the beach).

Way tooooo much spaining....I just need to experiment. 

By far my go to is to try to paddle with some speed into an oncoming and if I know I won't be able to make then I shoot the board with my feet off at about a 20-45 degree angle to my right (I'm a goofy) in an attempt to get the board up and over the wave and bail out left.  Works like a charm!

Still lots to learn......which is very cool!

[Badger]

Thanks Badger......I think I need a kook cam setup to try and capture what I'm trying to explain cuz my board is pointing to the beach and my back is to the incoming wave. When I say the "fins break the surface rising up in front of my face" I mean to say my body and board are facing the beach and the back/tail of the board rises up vertically exposing the backside of the fins (to the front of my body which is always oriented toward the beach).

Way tooooo much spaining....I just need to experiment. 

By far my go to is to try to paddle with some speed into an oncoming and if I know I won't be able to make then I shoot the board with my feet off at about a 20-45 degree angle to my right (I'm a goofy) in an attempt to get the board up and over the wave and bail out left.  Works like a charm!

Still lots to learn......which is very cool!

What does "backside of fins" mean?  I've never heard of fins having a backside. Are you talking about the trailing edge?

I've never had the tail of a board rise up vertically exposing the fins when using a tail handle. I'd love to see a video of what you're doing.

I mostly use the handle when I get caught inside. I might get hit by three or four waves before I'm able to get up and paddle away and it allows me to hang onto the board and get back on quickly.

Also, at the point break where I surf, there is often another surfer on the very next wave. If I fall, I use the handle to help keep the board out of his or her way.

.

[PonoBill]

What's -- from your description it sounds like you are getting up over the tail of the board and probably pushing too hard. Try not pushing at all--just hold the board. The tail will pop up a little, but that's about all. Then next wave just push down a little to counter that pop. You don't have to sink it. Most of the time I'm just making a grab for the board because I've just been worked and big brother is right behind. In that case, I don't even have the board pointed right. The wave will take care of all that plenty soon you betcha. Grab for the board, hang on as best you can, if it's too much let go. The board will be right there anyway.

The most fulfilling case is when you take off on the first wave of a set, screw up, and auger in. You might have to sit there while five or six set waves pummel you. But it's no big deal, after the first desperate grab you have time to point the board well and give the tail a little push. Your buddies are all getting worked and shoved into the lagoon. You're right where you were, and as soon as it's feasible you can spin your board around and get back to the lineup. That's when it's just magic.

[stoneaxe]

I was going to say much of what Bill just said...1/2 the time it's just grab with one hand and hold on briefly It's only when it gets bigger that I start to worry about how I do it and only then when I have time.

Whatsup...next time I'm down that way lets get in the water together. I understand your explanation, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. The back of the fins should be pointing towards you after the wave passes. When you say it rises vertically...it's supposed to...after you push the tail down and the wave pushes it further it pops back up towards the beach. In odd situations if you hold on to the board too long it can kick....that is one thing you need to watch for because if your grip is too tight it can twist your wrist and I've seen the fins exposed in that situation.

[WhatsSUP]

Thanks for the hints guys!  VERY helpful.  I put into practice the comments received this morning and lo and behold its apparent (now) that I've been pushing way to deep!  I found that a slight dip it all that's needed.  Still had the board rip away a couple of times but nothing serious.   

This morning we had some very nice Michael remnants in the thigh to chest range so it was good conditions to play in......Stoney:  Mentioned to a few other Zoner's that were down I was wondering if you might make it - pretty fun day.  Only regret is I should have brought the Creek instead of my B&B, which I picked up form repair yesterday...oh well.   

[Badger]

Yes a slight dip is all that's required. It doesn't take much pressure. Just enough to get the nose up.

I never thought to ask, what type of tail handle are you using? I wonder if that might be somehow affecting things.

We had some fun Micheal waves today also.

.

[WhatsSUP]

Standard NSI on my B&B....absolutely no need for it on the Creek as it has MORE than a sufficient hand grab on the stomp pad!

[stoneaxe]

No...I couldn't even get out of bed this morning. Combination of my head being screwed up and some stomach bug that came on fast last night. I did nada today in fact....posting here is bout as ambitious as it got.