Author Topic: Fear: Trump in the White House  (Read 35707 times)

connector14

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2018, 01:24:26 PM »
I am somewhat reassured that we in the paddling community can have such a civil discussion on such a distasteful matter. It is happening because we all care about the future of our country and recognize the significance of the moment.
Trump made some campaign promises that sounded to me like he could take the country in a better direction. He represented the possibility of change (draining the swamp, etc). I voted for change and have been severely disappointed in what has happened. The swamp is clearly growing and we need to clean house more than ever.
I am no saint,  but I am totally disgusted with the lack of moral leadership and the fact that lying and cheating and acceptance of degrading behavior is becoming the norm.
Members of the Supreme Court are supposed to represent themselves as the most honorable and trustworthy judges and interpreters of our laws. They are expected to be politically neutral and their personal "character" beyond reproach.
The current applicant for the position does not have the qualities we seek. Surely there must be others that are better qualified for the job that don't have such a checkered past.
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headmount

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2018, 01:39:37 PM »
Truthfully I think it's somewhat bullshit to bring up what happened at a drunken party 35 years ago in high school. I certainly wouldn't want to be judged on my behavior back then.....the statute of limitations is up on most anyway.... ;). That said after watching the shit show yesterday I was wondering just how the fuck he got picked in the 1st place. He may be a conservatives wet dream but I was underwhelmed by his performance. And SCOTUS is supposed to be apolitical and this guy is anything but.
I really agree with Stony here.  IMO he is an indication of the extremist sort of nominee we get now that we only need a simple majority to confirm.  Until 2017 a 'supermajority' of over 60 votes was needed to confirm a SCOTUS, and we, by definition because there rarely is a a supermajority split in the senate,  got much more politically moderate nominees.  McConnell made this rule change in 2017 to confirm Gorsuch as there was no chance to get a 60 vote passage.  McConnell's rule change was a further manipulation of the 'nuclear option' that Harry Reid instituted in 2013 which only affected cabinet posts and lesser court nominees.  So IMO these two senate leaders, one dem, the other GOP are responsible for how bad this process has become.  Until we return to the 60 vote rule we can expect this at every appointment.

pdxmike

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2018, 02:03:47 PM »
It’s hard otherwise to understand why someone who spends their entire professional life in courts could get the tone and delivery so wrong.

He had been thrown off message, off of his time practiced facade and with the goal in sight had decided to model the Trump message and persona.  The inherent stress of the situation brought in an unpracticed element as well.  What we saw ranged from "My 10 year old prayed for that woman" to "you need me on that wall".  He so much believes his own BS that he was comfortable changing the meaning of terms that every schoolboy knows and lying about unimportant things such as college drunkenness which are now being proven as patently false.  This type of lie is what impeached Clinton and may be what drops Kavanaugh.  Are we ready for a Supreme Court judge with no respect for truth under Oath?

One of the most disturbing things about this was how partisan, biased and Trump affiliated Kavanaugh represented himself to be.  Without seeming alarmist this seems like a juncture where checks and balances could truly be out the window.

Rachel Mitchel did an incredible job.  It was a pleasure to watch her operate.
The goal may have been to derail him by showing negative behavior from his past, but along with that came the effect of doing much like what I've read Steve Jobs did when he was interviewing people.  He'd toy with people--seeing if he could get them to crack, so whatever they'd come prepared to say became worthless.  He'd research people, learning what he could badger them about, then do things like pointing out decisions they'd made at their companies and asking how they could have been so stupid, over and over for the whole interview.  He'd do it with his own staff as well when they presented products or plans to them.


So whether it was intentional or not, the real power of the original Kavenaugh accusation and the process was to unveil how he functions when stressed.

Tom

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2018, 02:35:05 PM »
If that's how he functions sober, I'd hate to see how he functions after drinking. He likes beer.

pdxmike

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2018, 02:45:23 PM »
If that's how he functions sober, I'd hate to see how he functions after drinking. He likes beer.
A formerly-heavy-drinker friend of mine is convinced he HAD been drinking before that performance.

Area 10

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2018, 05:09:33 PM »
...
 Unbelievable. What a snivelling narcissistic histrionic aggressive twitched-up weirdo little toad.
...

Are these the latest technical terms for this kind of condition?
Remember anything coming from Area 10 has been filtered through his built-in British sense of decorum, propriety and understatement.
Correct. My original post contained 16 adjectives, but I edited out those that Kavanaugh’s friends might have deemed unfair before posting.

Area 10

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2018, 06:10:45 PM »
I am somewhat reassured that we in the paddling community can have such a civil discussion on such a distasteful matter. It is happening because we all care about the future of our country and recognize the significance of the moment.
Trump made some campaign promises that sounded to me like he could take the country in a better direction. He represented the possibility of change (draining the swamp, etc). I voted for change and have been severely disappointed in what has happened. The swamp is clearly growing and we need to clean house more than ever.
I am no saint,  but I am totally disgusted with the lack of moral leadership and the fact that lying and cheating and acceptance of degrading behavior is becoming the norm.
Members of the Supreme Court are supposed to represent themselves as the most honorable and trustworthy judges and interpreters of our laws. They are expected to be politically neutral and their personal "character" beyond reproach.
The current applicant for the position does not have the qualities we seek. Surely there must be others that are better qualified for the job that don't have such a checkered past.
Well said. I am not a US citizen, but I can tell you that so influential is US politics that politicians and leaders from other countries look to you to see what they can get away with. This is the reason why most of the world (except US enemies like Putin) have been appalled at the precedents for behaviour (in terms of lies) that Trump has set - which is why he was openly laughed at at the UN meeting this week (and seemed oblivious as to why).

What happens in the US will happen in our country (the UK) tomorrow, and we are frightened by the way in with which your politicians can tell blatant lies and still receive apparently unconditional support. We worry what signals that sends to our children. Here in the UK we have Russian GRU agents murdering British citizens with chemical weapons- yes, chemical weapons - with impunity, and then actually laughing about it in our faces. There is nothing we - or you - can do. If our children are seeing the Russian leader and the US president telling big whopping lies with relish, and getting away with it - indeed, even benefitting from it - what message does that teach them?

We have our own problems with lies, here in the UK. It is possible that as a result of blatant lies, the whole European edifice will crumble. Of course, China and Russia (and some Middle East countries etc) hope so. Much easier to attack an isolated and unpopulated US,  and a divided and economically weak Europe, at loggerheads with the US.

In this way, and on both sides (of the political divide as well as the Atlantic) this crap has to stop. This is not reality TV, where you vote for the most famous person or the most entertaining. In politics we should be voting for the person who is trustworthy and a steady (and fair, dispassionate) hand. Even if that means they are a bit boring. And we need to be electing people who are actually our representatives, not those from another social and economic orbit altogether.

This is our challenge: to repair democracy in the digital age, where clicks are worth more than facts, and anyone (or any AI) with any agenda can pretend to be anyone, and no-one would be any the wiser.

The first place to start is not to support people who your instincts tell you feel no guilt, and are just basically pretty unpleasant people. If you let one unpleasant and corrupt individual in, he (or she) will usher in a dozen others. Heaven only knows how much compromat Trump and the GOP have on Kavanaugh, to keep him in line. That batsh1t crazy performance of his was so obviously pathological that this will just be the tip of the iceberg. Normal people just don’t behave like that, even under stress. My guess is that he has an alcohol and/or substance abuse problem, and Trump etc have a lifetime of material on him, and the threat of exposure of it will keep him saying whatever they want him to say. That testimony of his was off-the-charts nuts. It was beyond what you’d see in scripted reality TV. This is NOT NORMAL, and neither is it not normal in a good or beneficial way.

Please stop this nonsense in the US because is encourages the selfish opportunistic swivel-eyed loons (Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg etc) outside the US as well, and then when the dust settles you are going to find it harder to do business with a bunch of lying cheating narcissists as heads of state than a steady hand. Imagine a room full of 193 Donald Trump clones at the UN. How much constructive and detailed business do you think would get done? They’d all be in the bathroom comparing their dicks, and declaring war on the biggest member.



connector14

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2018, 08:50:59 PM »
"biggest "member" and smallest brain. Very sad indeed.
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yugi

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2018, 05:32:38 AM »

 Heaven only knows how much compromat Trump and the GOP have on Kavanaugh, to keep him in line. That batsh1t crazy performance of his was so obviously pathological that this will just be the tip of the iceberg. Normal people just don’t behave like that, even under stress. My guess is that he has an alcohol and/or substance abuse problem, and Trump etc have a lifetime of material on him, and the threat of exposure of it will keep him saying whatever they want him to say. That testimony of his was off-the-charts nuts.


Take care America. If you believe you are [still] a democracy then take action and revise it quick so it can function as such for your kids.

This is a slippery slope that takes control out of the hands of the people. Hopefully Trump is a trim tab which ignites a call to action to set things straight just because he makes it so freaking obvious. A la Louis XV. I almost fell out of my chair when I saw a recent Trump interview where he stated “après moi le déluge”.

It happens easier and quicker than you think. Look outside. [and to look outside you will need to look outside US cable news].

Speaking of trim tabs…
reminds me of Buckminster Fuller. His tombstone reads “Call me trim tab’.

https://youtu.be/OQp6AnKRA8A?t=168


- a fellow citizen of spaceship earth


lucabrasi

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2018, 09:06:19 AM »
The Kavanaugh shitshow. Unbelievable. What a snivelling narcissistic histrionic aggressive twitched-up weirdo little toad. Regardless of whether he did the sexual assault (and I started sceptical before but afterwards concluded that he probably did) it's clear from the way he handled himself that he's not made of the right stuff for the post. He's Trump Mk2. It was crash tv.

I wouldn’t trust that guy to organise a birthday party for a bunch of 4 year olds. He’d probably cry and stamp his feet more than any of them.
Damn. I couldn't agree with you more.

Truthfully I think it's somewhat bullshit to bring up what happened at a drunken party 35 years ago in high school. I certainly wouldn't want to be judged on my behavior back then.....the statute of limitations is up on most anyway.... ;). That said after watching the shit show yesterday I was wondering just how the fuck he got picked in the 1st place. He may be a conservatives wet dream but I was underwhelmed by his performance. And SCOTUS is supposed to be apolitical and this guy is anything but.
I really agree with Stony here.  IMO he is an indication of the extremist sort of nominee we get now that we only need a simple majority to confirm.  Until 2017 a 'supermajority' of over 60 votes was needed to confirm a SCOTUS, and we, by definition because there rarely is a a supermajority split in the senate,  got much more politically moderate nominees.  McConnell made this rule change in 2017 to confirm Gorsuch as there was no chance to get a 60 vote passage.  McConnell's rule change was a further manipulation of the 'nuclear option' that Harry Reid instituted in 2013 which only affected cabinet posts and lesser court nominees.  So IMO these two senate leaders, one dem, the other GOP are responsible for how bad this process has become.  Until we return to the 60 vote rule we can expect this at every appointment.
Agree as well and damn if this isn't a real problem that you point out. 

I couldn't be bothered with politics for quite a bit. I didn't check in on this Kavanaugh stuff till a few days ago and when I saw the clips I was dumbstruck. Yeah, they were all "out of context" so to say but there was enough context to see the kind of person this guy really is.

Yep, like someone said, caught off guard and his true colors ran through.
If his nomination sticks that really goes to show how fucked up we really have become........for so many reasons, some of which pointed out in this thread very well.
How could the majority of anyone vote him in at this point thinking he is a good nominee?

Weasels wake

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2018, 10:34:40 AM »
Alightythen, solid evidence isn't needed, decades of records showing how he behaves behind the bench won't be considered, from now on it will only be trial by fire.  Lets se how he handles this!

If that's the direction that we are going to be heading from now on, this country has lost the foundation of decent civil practices.  It's back to the dark days of the inquisition.
It takes a quiver to do that.

addapost

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2018, 10:47:05 AM »
Alightythen, solid evidence isn't needed, decades of records showing how he behaves behind the bench won't be considered, from now on it will only be trial by fire.  Lets se how he handles this!

If that's the direction that we are going to be heading from now on, this country has lost the foundation of decent civil practices.  It's back to the dark days of the inquisition.
Here's an idea, how about nominating someone who has decades of bench qualifications AND lacks a well documented, decades-long reputation as being a total scumbag. How about that?
Bunch of old shit

PonoBill

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2018, 10:52:03 AM »
Evidence of what? That he is suitable for the job? One of the most important jobs in the USA? That he has the capability to make decisions based on an unbiased interpretation of the constitution and the body of precedence. There is no requirement for evidence in a job interview.

The strongest evidence I saw is that he dodged so many questions. Most of his responses to anything direct were calculated to avoid a charge that he lied to Congress. I'm sure that was part of his preparation for all the perjury-bait questions that the Democrats were peppering him with. Bottom line is that this is not a trial, it's a job interview, and I didn't see anything in his performance that said he was suited.

I'm very comfortable having a strongly conservative judge on the court. I think the court needs conservatism. What it doesn't need is extremism and judges who are in the pocket of the Republican Party (or the Democrats for that matter). Selecting a judge with a political philosophy that suits the President is standard. And having that judge pass muster with 60 of the senators ensures some balance. Using a nasty rule change to railroad an obviously extreme judge with a questionable past (doesn't sound like you've read up on this guy Weasel) who is clearly in the pocket of extremist patrons is not. How about a little separation of power.  If you didn't see that then your bullshit detector needs service.

I think Bernie's take on why the Republicans are so pressed to get this nomination shoved through is misdirection. It's not the potential for a Trump pardon to eliminate the potential for being charged in state court as double jeopardy, it's that Republicans won't have a majority in a month. That's also why they just passed a huge tax bill that favors their wealthy patrons--a very lame duck thing to do this close to elections. Very likely the Republicans will lose Congress, somewhat less likely the Senate. No politician is going to take a victory lap before the elections--that leads voters who favor those policies to be complacent and less likely to vote. This election is vital in a lot of ways. If the Democrats win the house they'll be able to Gerrymander the shit out of districts after the census is completed. They'll also be able to investigate and indict. I expect to see a lot of both.

Trump will, of course, go nuts.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 11:21:37 AM by PonoBill »
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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2018, 12:27:01 PM »
Another reason to fear Trump and his cronies: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/trump-administration-sees-a-7-degree-rise-in-global-temperatures-by-2100/2018/09/27/b9c6fada-bb45-11e8-bdc0-90f81cc58c5d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a96a22f2f779

"The analysis assumes the planet’s fate is already sealed. [...] The draft statement, issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), was written to justify President Trump’s decision to freeze federal fuel-efficiency standards for cars and light trucks built after 2020. While the proposal would increase greenhouse gas emissions, the impact statement says, that policy would add just a very small drop to a very big, hot bucket."

In other words, they're now admitting human-caused global warming, but saying "We're already screwed anyway, so let's just take the planet for one last ride".
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Weasels wake

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Re: Fear: Trump in the White House
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2018, 05:00:20 PM »
Bill I don't care near as much about Kavanaugh as I do about seeing the new direction that this process has taken, a much lower bar, so low that virtually anybody with any kind of story can kill anyone's chances at getting hired for anything.  Yes I'm fully aware of what the position of a supreme court justice is, but who okay's them?  Shouldn't those people show a similar belief in jurisprudence?  They didn't, as evidenced by DiFi holding onto that letter and not acting on it when she got it, intentionally.  Jurisprudence doesn't just apply to the courtroom, it applies to everyday life in this country, and that includes job interviews.
This new standard is totally fucked for our country on all levels.
That is my main point, actually it's my only point.

What conservative would be willing to go thru that kind of anal exam that apparently goes all the back to high school now, w/ or w/o solid evidence?  Only a fool would.  But maybe that's the goal.
It takes a quiver to do that.

 


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