Author Topic: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest  (Read 23366 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2018, 09:31:01 PM »
I remember not too long ago when Zane Schweitzer paddled BACk from Molokai (no one does that) with a boned out deer in bags on his board. Totally insane for half a dozen reasons, but that's Zane.

Of course, he could have shot a dozen deer here on Maui with the same amount of effort (no limits on deer on Maui, if you shot a hundred they'd pin a medal on you). but that wouldn't have made all of us crazy.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

WhatsSUP

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2019, 01:07:48 PM »
Hey all....quick update FWIW....

I've been steadfast in my quest and continue to make progress although in smaller bits these days.....still VERY happy.  I'm not sure why I just VERY recently noticed I've got my JL B&B fin placed about half way back in the fin box. Biggie suggested I push it all the way back and try that..... HOLY HELL!!!  What a difference!  I went out yesterday for a few hours in some small stuff and it was quite challenging....the board was considerably more difficult to turn than its been with the fin located mid-box.  The new placement resulted in something (to me) as akin to catching an edge on skis where the ski tracks one way and you another resulting in the stumble and bumble and attempt to recover. 

REALLY curious to thoughts as to fin placement....for now I'm gonna leave the fin all the way back and try to work through the recent challenges.  The one thing I worked on yesterday was the one back step (cross step) towards the tail (I think TallDude referred to it recently as the Telemark cross country ski move).  I was quite pleased with my ability to pretty quickly pick that up and be able to initiate a turn.....it was only after I was angled down the line that I was having some difficulty ("catching an edge") and wiping out more times than recovering.

As always, super open to thoughts/suggestions!!

 8) 8) 8)
Jimmy Lewis B&B Flat nose 10'1"
Sunova Creek 9'4" 
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supthecreek

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2019, 01:36:11 PM »
Hi Todd
It's all about where you place your feet on the board.
The fin forward makes it easier to turn for sure, but won't work as well in your quest for the nose.

Big fin, back in the box requires proper technique, but will snap around quite nicely.

Foot moved abruptly near the tail, on the "turn side" rail, will snap the board around sweet as...
Swap rail sides to "S" turn...

then run back to the nose and enjoy the control of the big fin, back in the box  ;D

Here's a old quickie vid I did of how loose a big stiff fin can be, when combined with proper technique:


WhatsSUP

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2019, 07:45:36 PM »
Thanks Rick!!!

LOVE LOVE LOVE the vid!!! WOW.....you wheel that board around left and right/to and fro,  without any challenge whatsoever!!!!  Jeeeeez Loouuu-ise! - reminds me of my slalom skiing days!

 The Stiffy seems pretty close to my 11"  B&B fin - that I just pushed all the back.....I'm a creature of habit and don't like to mix things up much/too fast.  I'm inclined to stick with my B&B fin pushed all the way back and adapt, but over time if the experts feel given my skill set I'd be better suited to switch things up I'd be open....

Thank you!  Very insightful!!!!

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Subber

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2019, 09:40:22 PM »
Hello WhatSup!

I own your fin, the 11 Jimmy Lewis Pivot, although mine is the earlier version of it
that I got when I purchased my B&B (with the concave nose).
I note that Linter owned both and said he felt the newer version, I think it is the one you own,
was the best for noseriding, I think of all the fins he tried.  (Actually, I think yours is a bit
more swept than mine is).

I also own the 10.5 Naish Nalu SUP fin that Creek owns (and surf so well), except
mine is ash wood veneer with translucent fiberglass outline trim.  (Also, it had a nub
on the bottom that I sawed off to make it seat better.)

The Jimmy Lewis is a Pivot which means you are much more likely to make pivot turns with it.
With the Naish you are more likely to make more drawn out carving turns (although it can still
be pivoted but not nearly as easily - you have to get way back).  - it has a much more swept profile. 
It is probable that trying to carve a turn using a pivot fin (way back) is why you were catching an edge. 
Like Creek indicates, you want to get further back to initiate your turn, and I think hold the board flatter
rather than leaning/tilting so much to turn.

You should be able to noseride well with either style fin but a pivot should let you set up
the noseride more efficiently.

Generally, while you can turn a bit easier with the fin further forward, you should be able to noseride
better with the fin further back - get further forward on the nose.  As noseriding is your goal, probably
best to keep the fin all the way in the back of the box, as you said.
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375x28.5x17.25x 4.25, 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

supthecreek

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2019, 03:08:00 AM »
Subber, great explanation of the differences between fin styles, thank you, I learned from that!
Funny, I was never a student of fins, I just surf and figure out what I need to do to make a board/fin work.

Example: I know I prefer a thruster set-up to quads.... but never bothered to wonder why  ;D

Yeah... I realize I should know these things...
I have all the "fin design explanations" pictures saved somewhere....
I tried to study them and grasp all the concepts...
but it felt too much like homework, so I went surfing  ;D ;D

Some student of design mechanics said I am a "rail surfer" and fins are less important to me..... so I'm going with that!

Listen to these guys Todd.... don't be like creek!

WhatsSUP

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2019, 05:53:02 AM »
Subber: Exactly the type of information I was hoping to read....very much appreciated!  When I started this endeavor never did I think my quest for the nose would require/include a quest for the tail as well!  Love the Zone!!!!  As mentioned, on my last outing a coupe of days ago I picked up the "cross step back" after catching the wave pretty quickly.....I'll have to experiment with that a bit more to see if one big cross step back gets me to "pivot" land...I don't think it will but know I'll have fun next time out experimenting how to get further back if needed.

Yes, I do have the newer honeycomb fin that my B&B (flatnose) came with.  I remember talking with Erick (Linter) about this fin summer before last.  Hoping he'll chime in here with any of his thoughts/insights.

Creek:  Thank you as well....you know me....always asking questions!   ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8)
Jimmy Lewis B&B Flat nose 10'1"
Sunova Creek 9'4" 
TAVA 11'2"
NSP Element 11'
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Subber

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2019, 09:24:18 AM »
Thanks guys.

Here is a short vid of Linter doing a pivot turn - the first turn he does is the most pivoty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MIgQ5QGPED8

I was reading some of his comments on that fin - it has a thicker foil than the original one
than I have.  I guess the thicker foil helps hold the board in which helps hold the tail down.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 09:27:35 AM by Subber »
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375x28.5x17.25x 4.25, 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

Bean

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2019, 10:27:38 AM »
I've heard that too, but I believe what primarily holds the tail down are the 50/50 rails that continue back into the tail.  That's a design hallmark of a classic noserider.

In general, 50/50 (or soft) rails allow the water to wrap around the board but it also slows the board down, while more downturned (or hard) rails allow the water to release for speed. 

Subber

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2019, 11:47:56 AM »
Yeah, I agree with that Bean.

This was different fins on the same B&B
(which does noseride somewhat better than my Laird which
has sharper rails near the tail).

Of course, the board is the more important as you detailed,
but the fin can also make some difference.  I would add it also
probably depends upon the particular waves....- LOL, and most of
all the particular surfer.

I've got a boat load of fins and some are definitely better than others
for getting toes over on the B&B...but, I think I still do not have the
exact technique down, otherwise I should be able to do it much more often,
and even with other fins.

You've got a B&B.  With the fins that I've had the best luck with,
sometimes the nose shoots way up in the air....but I've not been
paying attention enough to run up there when it does that (cause
its so crowded where I surf)....I think that maybe a golden opportunity
for toes over.  I just don't know and haven't proved it yet.
Have you experienced that where the nose shoots up in the air...tail just
get buried?  (that suction like that never happens on my Laird)
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375x28.5x17.25x 4.25, 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

Bean

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2019, 12:02:34 PM »
Nothing that extreme but keep in mind, there is a ton of tail rocker on the B&B. 

Subber

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2019, 12:10:08 PM »
Yeah you are right on the tail rocker -
much more than the Laird has.

I actually wish it had a tad less tail rocker.
I think that would make it paddle a bit faster.
But then it might not turn so easily.
I was really surprised how well this board
turns and handles.  It works for me in all but very
fast waves.
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375x28.5x17.25x 4.25, 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

Bean

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2019, 12:54:10 PM »
Yes, but the rocker also helps keep the tail down.  Have you noticed how fast your B&B accelerated when you step up past the mid point?

Subber

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2019, 01:12:13 PM »
Yes, the rocker holds the tail down (along with the 50/50 rails).

I've read about its speed picking up when you move forward but
I've not really noticed that acceleration that much, maybe because
overall it is slower than my other boards.
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375x28.5x17.25x 4.25, 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

Bean

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Re: Cross-Stepping/Noseriding: My Personal Quest
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2019, 01:58:10 PM »
Yes, my Stylemaster is way faster but the B&B will stay in the pocket (except when it's breaking really fast).

 


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