Author Topic: Over doing it  (Read 1491 times)

fatfish

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Over doing it
« on: September 23, 2018, 08:53:26 AM »
So I was curious of others thoughts/experiences here.

I am in my early 50s, very active on both land and water.  I have had some back issues over the years, not disc issues or anything but spine alignment, tightness in lower back.  Have implemented daily stretches to mitigate any issues.  I have an hour commute each way for work, plus a desk job 8-10 hours..so a lot of sitting.  I sit on a swiss ball too.

Anyway, in the last run of south swells, i surfed around 5 days in a row.  Threw in there some deadlift workouts and some manual labor work in the yard.  My lower back stiffened up for the last 5 days which incapacitated me so no surf etc.  My buddy who is the same age said that i over did it, shouldnt surf that many days in a row at our age. 

Wanted to know if you guys have any program to breakup your successive days of surfing or working out.  Do you take days off, etc.  Yoga (ugh), etc 

thanks for your wisdom here guys.

Area 10

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 09:00:12 AM »
I’d say your buddy is probably right. Improvement in fitness comes during the times of rest (recovery) not the sporting activity itself. The recovery period tends to increase as we get older. So you have to allow time for it, or else what happened to you, happens, and you can actually go backwards in fitness (overtraining). Try to mix up your activities more, and try to avoid doing the same one day after day in a row. This is actually a pretty good strategy at any age. But as you get older you have to listen more to what your body is telling you, and learn what the signals mean.

Badger

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 09:09:43 AM »
Good advice A10.

I just turned 61. When we have waves, I don't stop til I can't stand up and paddle anymore. I'm like a dog who can't stop chasing the frisbee. I'll do 4, 5 even 6 hour sessions. Sometimes my arms cramp up so bad that I can't paddle anymore and have to go in. When I get home, I'm totally exhausted for the rest of the day. Then I go right back out and do it again the next day. Occasionally I can do two sessions in one day but not very often.

I'm sure I'm over doing it. I should probably take breaks but it's not easy to sit there and watch waves going to waste. It will be interesting to hear how everyone else conserves their energy and manages their exercise to avoid over doing it.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 09:15:18 AM by Badger »
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PonoBill

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 09:41:38 AM »
For fatfish, that's easy--can the deadlifts and the manual labor. I did a workout with Dave Kalama once and then paddled my OC1 for a few hours. I spent the next five days sleeping in a chair because I couldn't lay down--massive whole body cramps when I did. I didn't give up paddling, I gave up working out with Dave.

I don't see any real effect from surfing or downwinding every day. I'm sure at the elite level that recovery is critical. At my level, there's a lot of resting, gabbing with buddies, futzing around. When there's good surf, I surf until I can't, every day. When there's wind, I downwind. In Maui that often means surf in the morning, downwind in the afternoon, fall asleep eating dinner. Get a solid eight hours and back at it. In Hood River that means one or two downwinders every day, sometimes three. Three is a bit much, but when it's really good, it's hard to pass up a run, and I just chill and cruise on number three.

Yes, leg cramps, ab cramps, leaping out of bed in the middle of the night clutching my chest (just cramps, but my wife is not amused) all common, but I'm not training for anything, I'm having fun. I don't really have a choice. What am I going to do, sit on my ass and watch?

Don't Ugh too hard over Yoga. One time when I REALLY overdid it I went to yoga class with Diane. After the class, which I did at the fucked up stiff old man level, I felt so good I went surfing. I do it every so often since then. The other big help is PT for the stuff that doesn't point the way it should, and massage. I get a massage once a week, PT almost as often, but I have a lot of stuff that points the wrong way.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 09:45:19 AM by PonoBill »
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SanoSlatchSup

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2018, 11:07:10 AM »
Fish, I've found that when I take a couple days off (three or more is even worse, and just one not as bad), that that evening I can barely get up off of the sofa, and that it takes me a good 10-12 steps all hunched over before I can eventually straighten, and get to the head or the refrige...to the point that the wife has joked that she's gonna get me an "old man walker". But as the successive days of surf increase, the better, and better I feel in the evening, with really no real hitch in my giddyup after day two.

Now I also don't deadlift any longer, and really try not lift anything for that matter...because that would mean I was doing some sort of manual labor, and I try to avoid that as much as possible. Getting the SUP, foils boards down from their ceiling racks is about all the lifting I'm happy with doing nowadays IYKWIM.  ;) ;D

So in my "professional" opinion, diagnosis, and prescription is...sounds to me that you need less work, and more surf if you want to maintain a health mind, body, and soul. If you need my to write you a 'script, meet me at the back of my van at "pink pole" on Monday, and I'll have one for you to take home to the wife. Hahaha... :o :)

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wavekook

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 05:52:13 PM »
Heh heh, I'm with Badger, the swell is so random around here that for any rare extended run of waves I surf until I can't lift the paddle. Absolutely shagged the next day but my mind says do it again so I drag my sorry ass down to the beach and repeat. Its worth it. Until my body has a major rebellion, which hasn't yet happened. Well I lie, after a couple of days there can be some rotator cuff stress which I sadly have to account for. TO be fair, probably should take a more grown up approach to it all.

And yes I'm one of those SUP surfers that has to ride it all the way in to get every last little juicy hit on the inside, even though it usually means at least a sets worth of waves on head in the slog out!

fatfish

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2018, 11:17:52 AM »
thanks for everyone's perspective and suggestions.  I have been lifting since i was a kid so kind of hard to not incorporate that into my weekly activities.  I do need to incorporate some variations into my regime.  My 24hr fitness gym has yoga on a couple of days so may try to incorporate that.  Maybe less powerlifting stuff.  And more stretching, especially those sitting muscles.  I discovered a bunch of stretches some new some old for the psoas muscle. 

Sano, maybe i can meet you for that script down by the hut/volleyball courts on Friday.  I am taking the day off so hopefully will get down there with my new rig.

ukgm

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2018, 12:09:31 PM »
I’d say your buddy is probably right. Improvement in fitness comes during the times of rest (recovery) not the sporting activity itself. The recovery period tends to increase as we get older. So you have to allow time for it, or else what happened to you, happens, and you can actually go backwards in fitness (overtraining). Try to mix up your activities more, and try to avoid doing the same one day after day in a row. This is actually a pretty good strategy at any age. But as you get older you have to listen more to what your body is telling you, and learn what the signals mean.

^This.

There is a difference between overtraining and overeaching (or underrecovery) but the reality is that 5 days of intense exercise is a bit much for anyone. For anyone who isn't under 25 and has inspirations of Olympic greatness, mixing things up is good policy - particularly with age. For what its worth, I have simplied a set of rules that I always adhere to no matter what sport I'm prioritising.

- I never do any more than two days in a row of efforts that you would (in simple terms) get me heavily out of breath (i.e. high intensity intervals). I intersperse these with other sports or lower intensity of the same sport.
- I always take once clear day off a week. No matter what i'm doing or what training cycle I'm in, if I ignore this, I'll start overreaching after a fortnight and will struggle. My mood swings first - that's my warning bell I listen out for.
- I'm reading a lot about the concept of the 'anabolic threshold' at the moment (no, not aerobic threshold, not anaerobic threshold), so I'm really focusing on lifting big weights again but no more than 2-3 times per week and protein ingestion needs to increase as you age to help recovery and to maintain muscle mass. Focus on good recovery and nutrition for recovery.

I have more but it would bore the hell out of you. Look after yourself - you'll be the best tool you ever have.

ninja tuna

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2018, 01:47:32 PM »
Anybody having back issues needs to look into Dr Stuart McGill and his book.  He has his big 3 exercises which you can look up.  I follow his stuff and it has been a lifesaver.

https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1537821960&sr=1-2&refinements=p_27%3AStuart+McGill

Eagle

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 01:58:23 PM »
... I'm really focusing on lifting big weights again but no more than 2-3 times per week and protein ingestion needs to increase as you age to help recovery and to maintain muscle mass. Focus on good recovery and nutrition for recovery.

I have more but it would bore the hell out of you. Look after yourself - you'll be the best tool you ever have.
Yep.  Would not cut out heavy DL or heavy manual labour either.  That sort of variation has been essential to maintaining and building even more muscle mass -> even after a recent DL set back injury.

But would agree that taking days off in between is very good advice.  Especially depending on intensity -> multiple days of very heavy repetitive stress is hard for any body part to recover from.  Took me about 10 days to fully recover from my recent debilitating "pop" in my lower back.  But in that period slowly and carefully continued lifting heavy to even increase past my problem rep range.  So was very much a "use it or lose it" proposition for me.  Psychologically it was extremely difficult to motivate my mind to ever lift heavy again and exceed that "problem" rep.  The fear of another "pop" was super hard to overcome.  It was such a weird sensation -> could barely even DL 30% at first.  But thankfully was able to push past that auto-lock mental safety barrier. 

So as noted before -> heavy variation has been key.  For me my back strength is stronger now than ever from super heavy squats and heavy DL.  Makes everyday heavy lifting chores and even heavy manual labour really quite "easy" comparably.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 02:06:06 PM by Eagle »
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ospreysup

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 02:44:05 PM »
Certainly some good advice. It sounds cliche' but you really have to determine your fitness goals. Surfing for me is a priority and when we get good swell surfing is before the gym but I am a weight lifter for sure .I look days out to determine lifting days in a given week when the surf is good. While I will still incorporate heavy lifting including deadlifting, I have seen great benefit from unilateral lifting without the stress on the lower back. Single leg RDL's,  reverse lunges and Bulgarian split squats specifically. Not only do you get the benefit of weight training utilizing lighter  weights through unilateral training but the ground based single league training will give you great benefits in terms of balance and stability. and they are much more challenging then you think!  I will fluctuate  between unilateral and bilateral lifts. And days off are essential!

 I think you will see great benefit from Stu McGil as mentioned earlier.

Eagle

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Re: Over doing it
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2018, 04:31:27 PM »
Your mind def can play tricks on true pain and true power output as I found out firsthand.  But as noted opposing and supporting stabilizer muscular development is no doubt key.  Unfortunately is overlooked by many.

"... just undergoing an MRI appears to be an independent risk factor (i.e, not related to disease severity) for future pain and disability.[44,45] In other words, just learning that your MRI shows ominous spinal “degeneration” is enough to make your pain worse and last longer. This fascinating phenomenon is known as the nocebo effect, and it fits perfectly in line with the biopsychosocial model where the brain has ultimate control over your perception of musculoskeletal pain."

https://startingstrength.com/article/aches-and-pains

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