Author Topic: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko  (Read 7496 times)

Beasho

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Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« on: August 31, 2018, 02:52:51 PM »
When I was a kid, I counted fish by the thousands and wrote them all down in a loose-leaf binder.  I grew up discovered Excel and kicked myself for missing out on this beautiful tool when I was ten years old. Many moons later I learned Microsoft Access and would eventually count calories by the millions learning less is more.  I bought an electricity monitor and started measuring the wattage used in my house every minute for more than five years, tens of millions of watts.  My conclusions were the light bulb was killing my electric bill.  Those old, smoky incandescent bulbs were to blame  CFL’s, and LED’s cut my bill in half overnight. These skills extend to my work life, counting loaves of bread in the hundreds of millions, barrels of oil in the billions and most recently vitamins in the hundreds of billions. Some people say I have an obsession with counting.

I surf to stay sane in an otherwise crazy world. A decade ago, I converted to surfing Stand Up Paddling boarding to catch more and bigger waves. I became an accomplished big wave surfer and most recently a foil surfer.  I found a great way to combine my passion for counting with surfing and on October 18, 2012, I started counting waves.  Like counting fish, I would mentally tally up the waves, come home and write them down this time in my favorite medium Microsoft Excel.  7,379 waves later I bought a TRACE GPS monitor for surfing. 

13,127 waves later and I have tallied 175 sessions & 2,563 Foil Waves starting a home-made board L41 and Kai Foil on June 4th, 2017.  Here is how the data has played out.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 02:55:38 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 02:55:02 PM »
So what's the takeaway?

Foiling is Spectacular!!!!

I have attempted to categorize the data into meaningful chunks.  I think the most salient difference about the foil is the speed and distance you are able to generate in mediocre to BAD surf.

The Maliko (200) hits an AVERAGE Max speed of ~ 17 mph in surf from 1 to 3 ft and 4 ft inclusive.  The average ride is 125 yards.  This has been measured over 34 sessions on both the East and West Coasts of the US. 

I say that the foil adds 4 feet to the conditions.  This comes from the ability to fly down the line turn, cut-back hit the lip and come out with speed as well as the overall increased adrenaline rush from the precarious takeoff, increased elevation and overall speed on the foil. 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 03:02:44 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 03:04:46 PM »
The other takeaway: Versatility of the IWA. 

I have fallen in love with the Maliko 200 this past summer in the feckless 3 to 4 foot surf @ 8 to 10 second period. 

However the Bubble chart shows the distance flown per hour vs. Average size of a wave face.  This is the average of the Maximum and Minimum face that I mentally observe and record for each session.  The Blue bubbles show the preference for the Maliko in Surf averaging less than 6 feet.  Then the Red Bubbles IWA kick in.  The IWA performs in everything from 4+ feet up to 10 feet (average e.g. 9 to 11 foot faces = 10 feet).  Added to this the IWA's ability to handle speed.  The Average, Average Max Speed (from all the sessions) and Max Top (Max of Max) are all greater for the IWA than the smaller KAI Foil.  Once you're up and flying the IWA you then have the ability to pump and traverse the troughs that otherwise knock the KAI down to sea level.  This is measured as an increased Average Wave Distance of 33% or 173 yards for the IWA vs. 130 for the KAI.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 03:24:44 PM by Beasho »

SaMoSUP

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 04:03:05 PM »
This is great data you could sell/share to the foil companies who I'm certain don't analyze their products to this level. Love this stuff!

Do you use SPSS, SAS, R by any chance? There are many more dimensions you could plug into these models that would be really interesting such as water temp, air temp, board sizes, your weight, etc. Geek out!
 

surfcowboy

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2018, 06:26:35 PM »
SaMo, don’t encourage him! Bringing up R on a surf forum. ;)

But you are spot on, these companies have none of this data I’m sure but also few could afford it. Oil and bread have slightly larger markets than foils lol.

 But as a service to the surfing world this is truly game changing. I can’t see why the Kai would be maintained as a model, for instance. Am I wrong that basically a Maliko 200 and Iwa combo would cover you fine? Or does this data likely vary a lot per rider?

I guess we all need Traces now.

In the Agriculture business the companies are giving the trackers away to get the data back. The data is worth way more than the $200-$500 device. Once these get cheaper I’ll bet a ton of sports are transformed.

Maybe we 3 should buy the bones of Trace and start a sports data firm?

sharksupper

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2018, 07:35:02 PM »
I think it's pretty funny most of us go out into the surf to get away from this kind of stuff but we are inevitably drawn everything back into it  ;D

A small group made a really cool tool for tuning mountain bike suspension, called a ShockWiz.  It measures your suspension movements and uses data science/ML to predict and recommend the best settings for your suspension.  I could totally see someone using a very similar device on a foil board to measure different qualities and make some kind of recommendations.  Although, I'm sure the type and number of factors could get quite large.  The beauty of the ShockWiz is that it just uses one sensor to do everything.

Geek surfers, oh boy, what's the world coming to!   ;)

PS.  I do know R, but go see what GCP with BigQuery is now offering for data scientists, totally amazing.   :)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 07:40:12 PM by sharksupper »

Beasho

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2018, 07:57:30 PM »
I think it's pretty funny most of us go out into the surf to get away from this kind of stuff but we are inevitably drawn everything back into it  ;D
. . . .
PS.  I do know R, but go see what GCP with BigQuery is now offering for data scientists, totally amazing.   :)

I was out yesterday with 3 data trackers.  1) My Trace - donated by PonoBill.  2)  Dawn Patrol on the iWatch  3) Strava on the iWatch

I discovered that Pono's Trace 'bonks' data dropping 3 minutes of every 10 minutes that transpire.  Really weird and Trace has no interest in figuring it out.  My original Trace did not do this but my original has a battery life of 20 minutes.  I feel a little bit lost when I have to go back to mentally counting waves.

I had to Google was GCP was with BigQuery.  Interesting.  I have been partial to Microsoft for 25 years.  Pivot tables 18 years ago - could handle millions of records before anyone knew, back when Excel had a supposed "limit" of 64,000 records.  PowerPivot 9 years ago - Could handle 100 million records on a laptop.  Then SQL Server Tabular - PowerPivot on a Server -  I built a 3 billion record model last summer with sub 2 second query time. 
Then this presentation last month.  @ 17:00 Amir Netz & Co. give a demonstration with a Trillion records - Instant response time 1/4 Petabyte.  This gets me fired up!!!!

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/businessapplicationssummit/video/BAS2018-204

« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 08:09:58 PM by Beasho »

ukgm

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2018, 11:50:19 PM »
Just a quick point regarding the absolute values the data has created. If the GPS or data collector has been wrist mounted, it will likely lead to increased error and value inflation. The arm movements used by SUP paddlers are dynamic and not steady state. The sampling rate and level of limb dynamicism can really elevate values beyond their true ones significantly and this won't be a stable or consistent inflation factor.

frenchfoiler

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 12:16:51 AM »
This confirm that the IWA is a really really good foil especially combine with the Kai stab (surf & sup).

I don't use much the Kai front wing. It is super nice for turning and for bigger waves, but not so easy for pumping and connecting wave.
If the Kai were as good as the IWA for pumping it would be great.

I love also the M200 but only for SUP on small wave.

stoneaxe

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 03:57:55 AM »
I never knew you were a numbers geek Beasho  ;D ;)
Bob

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surfercook

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2018, 07:11:26 AM »
That is truly an amazing compilation of data. Not surprised you've accumulated all that. I wonder if there is a percentage of error in your findings?
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Beasho

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 07:51:26 AM »
That is truly an amazing compilation of data. Not surprised you've accumulated all that. I wonder if there is a percentage of error in your findings?

 :o

Since I entered the data the only error would be based upon my mood at the time, perspective on wave height for example, or fat fingered entries.  These typically show up as outliers and I fix them later.  The speed data I am getting from the Trace for Both Maximum and Average speeds. 

Here is a Word Association chart.  These are semi-popular lately, even if weak on information.  It does let me select on a WORD = Ruby and I can see all the sessions, in this case Foil Sessions, Associated with When I wrote down Ruby in my Notes Field.  I usually write 2 anecdotal sentences on each session.  Pretty cool. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 08:17:11 AM by Beasho »

sharksupper

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 12:36:27 PM »
I think it's pretty funny most of us go out into the surf to get away from this kind of stuff but we are inevitably drawn everything back into it  ;D
. . . .
PS.  I do know R, but go see what GCP with BigQuery is now offering for data scientists, totally amazing.   :)

I was out yesterday with 3 data trackers.  1) My Trace - donated by PonoBill.  2)  Dawn Patrol on the iWatch  3) Strava on the iWatch

I discovered that Pono's Trace 'bonks' data dropping 3 minutes of every 10 minutes that transpire.  Really weird and Trace has no interest in figuring it out.  My original Trace did not do this but my original has a battery life of 20 minutes.  I feel a little bit lost when I have to go back to mentally counting waves.

I had to Google was GCP was with BigQuery.  Interesting.  I have been partial to Microsoft for 25 years.  Pivot tables 18 years ago - could handle millions of records before anyone knew, back when Excel had a supposed "limit" of 64,000 records.  PowerPivot 9 years ago - Could handle 100 million records on a laptop.  Then SQL Server Tabular - PowerPivot on a Server -  I built a 3 billion record model last summer with sub 2 second query time. 
Then this presentation last month.  @ 17:00 Amir Netz & Co. give a demonstration with a Trillion records - Instant response time 1/4 Petabyte.  This gets me fired up!!!!

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/businessapplicationssummit/video/BAS2018-204

Ha!  I'm in the MS club myself, using SQL Server for 20yrs+, but other things are getting more popular with people, so unfortunately I must follow the crowd I'm in at the moment. 

I want a wave quality prediction tool!   ;D  that would rock!

PonoBill

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2018, 05:58:58 PM »
Send me your trace and I'll put a new battery in it. If you like I can do a Frankenstein version with radically extended battery life--the thing doesn't need to be small.
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Beasho

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Re: Foiling Statistics - Kai vs. Iwa vs. Maliko
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2018, 08:19:10 AM »
Send me your trace and I'll put a new battery in it. If you like I can do a Frankenstein version with radically extended battery life--the thing doesn't need to be small.

Done!!!  I had briefly thought of that but didn't have the stones to get in there and start soldering: Thank you Again PonoBill! 

Next up:  The Trace produces 18,000 data points an hour.  Roughly 20K to 28K per session.  When I isolate the individual waves it ends up with 1,000 to 2,000 data rows per session of PURE wave data.  Add the Board the Foil and VOILA - The data just starts to get big.  Here is a primer.

Consolidated 6 sessions of data.  I need to dimensionalize further.  BUT I have 100's of Trace Sessions that I can add to this view.

Quick Assessment on this data:  Note the Maliko 200 is Comfortably flying below 10 mph.  See Dotted Line However the IWA is sagging.  This highlights the Low Speed advantage of the Maliko and the fact you have to keep the IWA moving FASTER to enjoy it.

PS: Note on 7/26 - Extremely long wave average.  This was True but I caught ~ 10 waves.  The TRACE 'bonk' issue dropped a bunch of them.  This was a dreamy day on the East Coast and a top 5 foil day of my life.  Really, really cool.  But - I lost much of the data.   
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:40:56 AM by Beasho »

 


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