Author Topic: New ride, the latest from JL  (Read 4534 times)

sharksupper

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New ride, the latest from JL
« on: August 24, 2018, 12:31:34 PM »
6'5 x 28.5 x 4.25 "Flying V"  107L according to Marlon, despite that the sticker on it says 115L (a mistake from the factory I'm told).  This example is 15.5lbs in carbon.  The red has a pretty metal flake in it.  I'll give a ride report after I get it wet.

exiled

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2018, 04:11:50 PM »
I swear Jimmy must be allergic to volume

sharksupper

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2018, 04:29:18 PM »
This is the smallest version of this production model.  Here are all the sizes Marlon listed:

6'5"x28.5"x4.25" (107L)
6'11"x29"x4.3" (122L)
7'5"x30"x4.7" (143L)
7'11"x31"x5" (168.6L)

toolate

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2018, 10:33:46 AM »
excited to hear how it goes!
what is your weight?

sharksupper

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2018, 11:25:37 AM »
First session done.  Wow, my observations here are going to be more about what it's like to ride a small-ish 6'5@107L foil specific SUP vs a larger (8'5@115L) converted surf SUP.  This is a whole new category of board for me so I really can't provide any feedback on how it compares to other similarly shaped/sized foil specific boards.

I'm around 180-ish right now with a wet full wetsuit on (cold water here).

Conditions weren't the super best, but ok, glassy, 5-6ft @ 8-9sec, so a bit crunchy.  Knee to chest high, mostly not breaking, but when they did it was steep.  Not a tone of residual energy in the waves after breaking.  I had the maliko 200 on with track adapter, so +4" on the mast.  I ran it in the middle of the track, but after this session I think I need to move it all the way to the back.  On drop-ins I was nearly stepping off the pad on the nose to keep it down.... but once riding my foot was just on or barely in front of the front foot marker on the pad.

I got off to a good start and somehow managed to catch and fly my very first drop-in not knowing the proper foot position yet. 

The JL 6'5@107L compared to my converted Naish 8'5@115L:

1.  Slower paddling/in-water board speed, probably half!.. or less!
2.  Harder to catch waves, I probably caught 1/3 of the waves I normally would get on the larger board.  Mostly due to #1 above.
3.  Harder to keep the nose down on drop-in.  Not sure why, but I really had to lean all my weight on the nose to get it leveled off on drop-in, I guess less leverage than my larger board...??  I had some spectacular crashes where the foil launched me down the wave to the bottom on late drops, got a couple of stings from hitting the water so hard! lol
4.  Fantastic stability and float!  I am truly amazed, the board is super stable, even feels maybe more stable than my larger board!  Feels like it floats just as well @107L as the 115L!  Weird!
5.  Super light weight, I think the Naish with the massively reinforced foil box install is about 20-22lbs+, the JL is 15.5lbs, that's almost the weight of the foil in savings!  Very noticeable carrying it and riding it.
5.  Excellent handling both in the water and flying.  You can pull a 180 in the water to catch a wave in like half a second!  Once flying, the lower weight and swing weight make it SOOOOOO much more maneuverable.  I also felt like there was less flex in the foil/mast due to the lower swing/weight.
6.  Less glide?  I guess with the weight savings it's like not having as much ballast, so I seemed to glide a little less long (no pumping) than with the heavier board.  Not a lot, but noticeable.
7.  More efficient flying and pumping.  Pumping has definitely improved a whole lot!  Not only can I pump easier to the wave in front of the one I'm on, but when I turn/carve or do mini-pumps I seem to get a lot out of my effort.  I was able to pump half way back out on one ride.  On the Naish I have pumped all the wave back out, but definitely not nearly as easily and that was under perfect conditions (good rebound).  Today was not good for pumping back out and I was able to make it part way back out and several waves.  I did not hit the tail or nose on the water even once while pumping, even aggressively, super cool!  This allowed me to pump the foil even when only inches out of the water.
8.  JL has the best finish!!  The board finish is better than any of my cars!  No joking.  It's a real shame to see it get scuffed from paddling and handling.
9.  It's harder to ride, less stable, but way more maneuverable.
10.  I think I will still ride the Naish when the waves are bigger or the water is choppier.  You need good board speed to catch bigger waves before they break, and paddling a tiny board like this in chop is not going to be fun.  However, when the waves are good and easier to catch the advantages in handling and pumping are going to be really awesome!  There are definitely trade offs with each board.

After a few more session I will try the foot straps it came with.  I don't feel like I need them, but I can imagine they will allow even more pumping and stability in turns/etc.

I am stoked on the board, looking forward to learning how to ride it better!

Dwight (DW)

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2018, 12:23:40 PM »
I don’t think you’ll use the 8’5 anymore. You have one more hurdle to make the 6’5 catch waves as easy as the longer board. A few board pumps while digging to catch the wave. And maybe some mast placement tuning. I guess that’s two things.

sharksupper

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2018, 01:39:50 PM »
I don’t think you’ll use the 8’5 anymore. You have one more hurdle to make the 6’5 catch waves as easy as the longer board. A few board pumps while digging to catch the wave. And maybe some mast placement tuning. I guess that’s two things.

I'm thinking that a front foot strap is really going to help with getting the pumping going from flat/drop-in.  The reason being you can try to raise the nose of the board with the front foot by lifting.  Can anyone comment if they've found that to be true?

Beasho

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2018, 05:02:03 PM »
I'm thinking that a front foot strap is really going to help with getting the pumping going from flat/drop-in.  The reason being you can try to raise the nose of the board with the front foot by lifting.  Can anyone comment if they've found that to be true?

Yes TRUE!

frenchfoiler

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2018, 10:47:42 PM »
I don’t think you’ll use the 8’5 anymore. You have one more hurdle to make the 6’5 catch waves as easy as the longer board. A few board pumps while digging to catch the wave. And maybe some mast placement tuning. I guess that’s two things.

I'm thinking that a front foot strap is really going to help with getting the pumping going from flat/drop-in.  The reason being you can try to raise the nose of the board with the front foot by lifting.  Can anyone comment if they've found that to be true?

I agree, the front foot strap helps a lot especially for lifting super early and for pumping but you need to make sure it is on the right spot.

I guess the best explanation is right there :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSy94r27lZc


Dwight (DW)

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2018, 03:49:29 AM »
If you don’t want to be a strap guy, you don’t need them to pump.

Unweighting the front foot is enough. If there is some forward movement, unweighting will make the nose jump up, then push it down. Strapless you can cheat the foot more forward during the pump, taking less effort.

If there is no forward movement, forget about it. Straps or not.

Looking back, I see some similarities between kiting and foiling.

Kiters were all boots
Foilers were all boots (air chair)

Skills and equipment improve, then...

Kiters are mostly straps
Foilers are strapped

Then...

Kiters go strapless and do things only thought possible with straps. 
Foilers go strapless and do things only thought possible with straps. In two years Austin is doing flips strapless
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 04:06:06 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Califoilia

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2018, 12:12:35 PM »
I ride a front strap and a kick pad on my current board, and love it. No 2nd thought on foot placement, and I also use/apply pressure on either side of the front strap to make turns one way or the other (very little movement needed to get a foil board to turn pretty sharply)...but I recently rode a friend's board w/o straps, and had an absolute blast being able to move my feet around much like I was surfing again. Now one notable difference was the big mast placement variants of the two boards...

My board I bought 2nd hand, so it was one of the earlier models still in the "new" surf foiling R&D mode, and the mast is 22" from the tail in the Tuttle box (it's 7'3" and for that size board GF recommends 16"-20") so it flies quite easily compared to the other board that was 7'0", and had the mast in the box only 14" from the tail, and was less "flyable" but way more maneuverable, forgiving, and predictable (both were running Iwa wings, and stabilizers).

So everything on the strapless board seemed to be happening much more slowly, so moving my feet around was no problem. Conversely, when I had taken off the strap on my board previously, I found that any little movement or misplacement of my front foot was met with an out of control board headed in who knows what direction...up, out, left, right, down, dive...just all over the place (it should be noted that I was still learning at the time, and searching for anything I thought would make it easier). So having the front strap prevented that, and the learning curve was shortened greatly after reinstalling, and just sticking with one thing, and one place to put my front foot.

But now I'm contemplating removing the front strap on my board just to see how a little experience, and better understanding of how and when the board will react under pretty much all conditions/situations will allow me to move my feet, and get a completely different feel/performance out of it...or not.  :o :)

Stay tuned, this may happen sooner than later.... 8)



Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

sharksupper

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2018, 02:11:50 PM »
I'm glad you mentioned about the inability to move your foot around the board with the strap.  Right now I have to step my front foot about 6-8" in front of the normal flying position so I can drop in properly.  After dropping in I kind of heel to toe shuffle my foot back into position.  I've been meaning to ask how you guys deal with this?  I see two options; 1. don't put your foot in the strap until you drop-in, which seems to defeat the purpose of having a front strap to help get your on the foil, or; 2. Learn how to lean more on the front foot and/or lift with the back foot (also in a strap) to control pitch on drop in.  Real curious how people have been making this work for when I have a go at it.

Califoilia

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2018, 02:31:22 PM »
With the front strap, you have to learn to "pump" into the wave, and not try to paddle into it like you would on a regular sup. Listen to what Beasho says to his daughter at the 2 second mark...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh5PSh0-NRs

...when she was almost in but still not there, and would have probably missed it w/o the "pump...pump once...pump" encouragement from dad.

I can tell you that starting out of the strap with your foot ahead of it, and then trying to lift it, move it back into the strap is fruitless at best, disastrous at worst.  Because as soon as you unweight the front foot to get it back over and into the strap, that unweighting shifts too much weight onto the back leg, and "to the moon" you go. Trying to "heel-toe" it back towards and in the strap is just way too slow, and also takes the foot off of the centerline, and you're more than likely going to start turning in the direction of that offset weighted foot...also no good.

Let me see if I can make a video of a guy who does it really well for an example. Back in a bit....

EDIT: OK, take a look at how Ron "angledfoil" Stacks does basically 3-1/2 strong paddle strokes to get the board moving, but then 5 board pumps with his paddle even out of the water on them to actually get the board "flying" into the wave...

https://youtu.be/_BtiryqVKaU
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 02:55:53 PM by SanoSlatchSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

sharksupper

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2018, 03:14:15 PM »
Wow, that board Ron is riding has some crazy kind of rocker profile!  Looks like a banana!  Mine is nearly dead flat in the back, which I would have thought was faster.  I wonder if that rocker Ron has helps with pumping on the get-go.  I certainly pump my a$$ off to catch the waves, no issues there, but this new shorter board has reduced my board speed to the point I can't get first pump in, or when I do it's so late the wave is already spilling.  Granted they were steep crappy waves, but I swear on my longer board I could drop waves much less steep... which make sense to me, how could a smaller board ever drop as slow of waves as a larger one?  I'm going to ride the new board without straps until I'm really used to it, then I'll maybe add just the front and see how it goes.  It doesn't seem like you need the rear strap as much.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: New ride, the latest from JL
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2018, 03:41:45 PM »
When I make a fast drop that requires heavier front loading, I’ll just move the rear foot up. It’s easier and does the same thing. Moves your CG forward.

How can a shorter board catch waves like a longer one? Less weight. Easier pumping. Optimized board design.

That said, I’ve done some short ones that we’re not easier. I think higher volume helps a small board paddle easier. A design that maximizes any push from the wave helps too. My personal 6’4 is 125 liters!

 


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