Most surfable downwind board?

[Bean]

... I feel that the AS does not surf well and the only way of steering it is by using the "reverse steering" all the time which is not much fun.

In the meantime, try to get further back on the tail and surf it like a log (think pivot turns)

[DavidJohn]

Watching Conner Baxter and many other skilled paddlers shows that the AllStar surfs fine.. If you’re getting the opposite rail turning thing happening I’d guess it’s more about lack of skill and/or correct technique rather than a problem with the board. Also us bigger guys have a hard time getting back far enough without sinking the tail too much. My friend (JC) is a StarBoard team rider and has a new AllStar arriving any day now.. I’ve heard that they’ve gone away from the radical bottom shape with the deep single concave and steep side chines.. I’m looking forward to checking it out.

[Ripple]

Thanks everyone for chipping in, very useful info. Reading the first few responses I’ve realised that being a little more specific about my circumstances would have helped to focus more the answers on my needs... so, here we go.

I am 6’1” by 190 lb, so not the lightest/shortest rider and like stable boards.

I usually  downwind in the Morton bay (Brisbane, Oz), which is open to the ocean but fully shielded from swells by islands so more of a large lake conditions. 1-2 ft high, 12-15 ft long bumps. Quite tricky to steer stepping back on the AS as suggested,  as the nose has to be kept just skimming on the crest in front to ride the bump, a little further forward it will sink and put the brakes on, a little further back will stall the board and lose the bump.

Just to clarify, when I say surfable I mean a board which can be steered on small and short bumps like a surfboard, not actually surfing waves.

Am I right in thinking that unlimited boards would probably be faster but less surfy because of the length?

[Area 10]

Ah! Ok, so I wrote this while the OP was replying and he beat me to it, so ignore the bits that no longer apply - I can’t be bothered to edit it!:

Ok, so maybe we need to distinguish here between surfing bumps and surfing actua waves, ie. surfing surfing. I read the OP’s post as referring to surfing bumps when DWing, not surfing actual waves. No-one reverse steers on a wave, do they? The OP is referring to carving on a bump, no? Some boards are definitely easier and more fun to steer on a bump than others. I have never found the AS to be as good downwind as I expect, or is claimed. This might be one reason why the top guys are tending to use the Sprint even for downwind races.

Connor Baxter could make anything work. But he’s not there to have fun or have an easy life. All he wants is speed and he doesn’t care how painful, effortful or difficult it is to use a board, as long as it goes fast. Most of us who downwind regularly have a different set of criteria - not least because when downwinding with buddies you need to stay roughly together anyway, for safety reasons. So it’s rarely *only* about speed, as it is for the pros. Ease of getting into a bump, and control of the board, plus excellent handling in difficult or critical conditions are much more important characteristics. Unfortunately however, the emphasis on ultimate speed at all costs has sometimes relegated these features to the back of the list of criteria when manufacturers have been designing boards. What most of us want in a downwind board is a shape that flatters us, and can cope with a wide variety of conditions, not one that could go 0.5% faster if Connor Baxter was on it, but for everyone else is no fun to paddle.

[Area 10]

Thanks everyone for chipping in, very useful info. Reading the first few responses I’ve realised that being a little more specific about my circumstances would have helped to focus more the answers on my needs... so, here we go.

I am 6’1” by 190 lb, so not the lightest/shortest rider and like stable boards.

I usually  downwind in the Morton bay (Brisbane, Oz), which is open to the ocean but fully shielded from swells by islands so more of a large lake conditions. 1-2 ft high, 12-15 ft long bumps. Quite tricky to steer stepping back on the AS as suggested,  as the nose has to be kept just skimming on the crest in front to ride the bump, a little further forward it will sink and put the brakes on, a little further back will stall the board and lose the bump.

Just to clarify, when I say surfable I mean a board which can be steered on small and short bumps like a surfboard, not actually surfing waves.

Am I right in thinking that unlimited boards would probably be faster but less surfy because of the length?

UL do not have to be less surfy. I have two 16ft low volume, full rocker DW boards that have fixed fins, not rudders, and I can actually surf them easily in overhead waves (and do eg. cutbacks on them, albeit very slow ones), never mind carving on bumps. So the surfability of a board depends more on the design than the length. The problem is that most UL boards are designed to be used with a rudder. So they are not intended to be steered from the back much. The idea is to use the rudder when you are on a bump. This works well, plainly, in Hawaiian conditions. But in some smallish, steep, messy, short period conditions it doesn’t work at all - in those conditions you need to dance all over the place to stay on a bump and so you are rarely in the right place to be using the rudder, and if you do you can easily prompt broaching because you are too far forward. Probably what is needed to increase the range of conditions that are ideal for a rudder would be to have two potential rudder positions, front and back (like, a long way back). But until designers like Mark Raaphorst force themselves to endure hours of DWing in the kind of dribble that most of us have to deal with around the world, the boards are going to keep being optimised for Hawaiian or Gorge-type DW conditions, where pretty much anything feels good.

It sounds like you should try eg. a F16, if you can get hold of one. You might find it works better if you strip out the rudder and use a fixed fin. Everyone now will tell you that this is a bad idea, but very few people have actually done it. I have, and love fixed fin UL downwind boards. All the advantages of a longer board but none of the shortcomings of a rudder in slop, plus, if you fit a 2+1 fin setup like I have, there is enhanced steering and surfability to spare. Supuk has even fitted a quad fin setup on his 17ft DW board! Sounds crazy, right? Well just free your mind and give it a go! You *will* be surprised. And no, a decent shape UL does not have to be difficult to quarter in winds. You just need to be able to get forward on it, and to have the rail volumes well balanced. Much more effective than a rudder.

Of course, everyone will now disagree with me, as they always do, and defend their precious rudder like it was a religious artefact. But unless they have actually tried a fixed fin UL board (and it is a design that suits a fin) vs a ruddered one in the conditions that I’m talking about, then they are doing nothing more than merely  showing their prejudices.

So, to cut a long story short, some UL boards are more surfy than some 14ft boards. A F16 for instance would be surfier than an All Star, even with a rudder.

[Ripple]

Out of curiosity, opinions on the blue planet bump rider? Just exploring what’s available used at the moment. There is also a F16 funny enough, on the west coast though, which in shipping costs translates to another planet.....

[Area 10]

Out of curiosity, opinions on the blue planet bump rider? Just exploring what’s available used at the moment. There is also a F16 funny enough, on the west coast though, which in shipping costs translates to another planet.....

I haven’t tried one, but I’d still definitely consider the Bump Rider if it’s a good price.

How strong is the wind near you? If the wind is under 20 knots nearly all the time then one of the more surfy all-waters boards like the Maliko or Vapor may suit. Or a Bullet 14v2 (the one SIC sells now).

If your wind often goes above 20 then the full-on gun-type specialised DW boards (like the bump rider, Bulletv1, F16, M14) come into their own.

Having said this, me and my paddle buddies pretty much always prefer paddling the gun-style boards in virtually anything other than windless flat water. They may be 5-10% slower in pure flat water, but they are 100% more fun in anything else

It’s perhaps kinda a shame that there isn’t a wider size (maybe 27.5”) Bayonet, because I reckon that would suit a lot of people. 26” wide is still fairly narrow for the average beginner downwinder or weekend warrior in a 14 length.But I guess that SIC figures that those people will go for the Bullet 14.

[Badger]

There are two types of downwind boards, the racing shape and the fun surfing shape. There may be some overlap but basically these are the two groups.

The racing style shapes with square or pointed tails and less rocker will have great glide and go fast but they are not going to turn anywhere near as easily as a board with a little more rocker and a more surfboard shaped tail.

Since I have no desire to go fast, I've always preferred the surfboard shapes for downwind because of their maneuverability on the bump. They also have the added advantage of having decent performance for wave surfing allowing me to get more use out of the board.

For a more surfy downwind shape definitely consider the Jimmy Lewis M series boards.

I also like the looks of the Blue Planet Bump Rider 14' and Bump Surfer 12'6.

The PSH Hull Paddler 14' would be awesome to have but they stopped making them. I love watching this vid. 





The 12'6 lengths will surf waves better and might be suitable for small scale inland downwinders if the bumps are very close together.

Open ocean downwinders require a 14 footer to achieve the necessary glide needed.

.

[burchas]

Out of curiosity, opinions on the blue planet bump rider?

Blue Planet Bump rider is a really fun board. Once I found the right fin for it I no longer
had broaching issue. The rails on this board designed to carve like no other board I've
tested in this category so if that's your style you won't be disappointed.

Will work with any real wind, we rode from 15knots to 50knots winds, had fun regardless.



Similar conditions to yours I guess?

[Eagle]

"Just to clarify, when I say surfable I mean a board which can be steered on small and short bumps like a surfboard, not actually surfing waves."

The JL M14 does that real easy for a 14.  The 12'6 should be even better.  But even the All Star can be surfed.  Just requires a higher skill level.  With the much flatter tail underbody currently -> it should be that much easier.  The original triple concave feels somewhat tippy for that.

[Area 10]

"Just to clarify, when I say surfable I mean a board which can be steered on small and short bumps like a surfboard, not actually surfing waves."

The JL M14 does that real easy for a 14.  The 12'6 should be even better.  But even the All Star can be surfed.  Just requires a higher skill level.  With the much flatter tail underbody currently -> it should be that much easier.  The original triple concave feels somewhat tippy for that.

Anything *can* be surfed if you are skilful enough. But whether it will be enjoyable is another matter. The AS is no better than average for a race board for surfing. And pretty much all surf-shaped DW boards are better than any race-type boards for surfing. That translates to carving on bumps too.

[Eagle]

.. I currently use a 2018 14x28 Allstar and despite being able to catch many bumps with it, I feel that the AS does not surf well and the only way of steering it is by using the "reverse steering" all the time which is not much fun. I normally downwind in small-ish bay chop with rather short wave length, where the nose of the board is most of the time just pearling on the crest of the bump in front if the board is square to the bumps ...

Here is a guy on a DW run using the AS28.  Is your experience like this or something else?

Edit:  I have paddled the 28 for a short demo upwind then back.  It seemed more designed for DW vs AW.  It really liked getting pushed from behind.  Plus used the 24.5 on a DW run.  That board jumped on a plane fast.  Was very slippery.  I have the 23 and it is a must to get back far enough to keep the proper trim.  But cutting across waves DW is not its forte with its slipping cutting boof. 

[Badger]

A few years ago I bought an All Star 14'x28 and had it for about a week before I returned it and ordered the M-14.

I wanted a downwind board that would also be fun in waves. To me the All Star felt stiff like a corpse, as if it had no soul. It tracked straight really well and was fast, but I couldn't get over that race board feel whenever I caught a bump.

This is the video that made me buy the All Star. These guys make it look easy in perfect conditions. Looking back now I can see the stiffness in the way the boards surf. Notice how the nose keeps popping up. Each time it does that, it's like putting on the brakes and the board loses speed. It takes a ton of finesse to make them turn at all. I like boards that require the least possible amount of effort to turn. That's what I found in the M-14 and later the M-12'6. I would love to see how those boards would do in the same conditions.

[Eagle]

Yep.  The All Star feels quite stiff on a wave.  It does require a ton of finesse to turn and carve.  My preference for that is the same as you.  M14 or probs better the 12'6. 

[Luc Benac]

To me the All Star felt stiff like a corpse, as if it had no soul. It tracked straight really well and was fast, but I couldn't get over that race board feel whenever I caught a bump.

Funny that was my first reaction (what's the big deal?) when I briefly tried an AllStar 2016 and gave it back to my friend very quickly. He was cheesed off - like what, you do not like it really.... before the end of the season he traded it for an Ace. I then tried a 2017 and then again a 2018 and they felt like a freight train, and I could not go back fast enough on my Vapor.
My Ace-GT felt livelier then these - go figure. The design just does not speak to me but it must be really good for plenty of people as you can see AllStar a dime a dozen.