Author Topic: Kite into SUP Foil  (Read 1714 times)

APPST_Paddle

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Kite into SUP Foil
« on: August 08, 2018, 06:09:09 AM »
I'm wondering if anyone in this forum has started off with a kite-foil and then moved on to SUP. If I'm going to to get into foil, that's my progression, I"m a very capable kiter at this point (10 years, mostly strapless surfboard now). A lot of my kite buddies are migrating over to the foil for light wind/flat spells. So, if anyone has gone this route, what did you start with, did you keep the mast, etc. and just swap out for larger/better wing/fuselages later for SUP?

7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'3" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

norcom

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 06:34:01 AM »
I started with a kite foil and moved to SUP/wind foil. Though I've still yet to have a successfull SUP-foil ride. I've been kite foling for about four years now and I was wind-foiling on my 3rd tack. Learning to kite foil definitely helped as I knew how to foil and could ride easily once up on the wind-foil.

The problem with SUP-foil for me is that the waves I'm trying to ride have ZERO push. They're barely knee high and it's almost like going from flat paddling to foiling which is impossible for me. Just like I tried to do a running beach start with a foil. LOL The jump up is IMPOSSIBLE unless you're in insane shape.  ;D

I started with a kite LF fun foil, upgraded to the kite Slingshot/Moses carbon foil, picked up a Chinese Takuma clone and fell in love with the big foils for kiting before I even tried it with a SUP/wind. The feeling of big wings while kiting is awesome! Now I'm usually on the GoFoil Iwa/Kai for kiting and try the Maliko200 to fail-SUP-foil.

Once you learn to foil with a kite/SUP/windsurfer the transition to the others will be much easier. At least it was for me from kite to wind foiling. Big wings should make learning a lot easier as well but if the wind picks up it's similary as being overpowered on a big kite, you need to know how to control them.

As far as what you should get to be able to kite and SUP foil is hard to say. I don't know if you'd like the speed of smaller wings or the surf feeling of the big foils. I was once sold on the speed and now all I want is the surf feeling. Slingshot masts/bases/wings are interchangeable, perhaps you should look into that. If money's no object, Moses now has some bigger carbon masts/wings. I've blown way too much money into this to find what I like and I'm still not 100% satisfied.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 06:44:58 AM by norcom »

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 07:21:07 AM »
I started with a kite foil and moved to SUP/wind foil. Though I've still yet to have a successfull SUP-foil ride. I've been kite foling for about four years now and I was wind-foiling on my 3rd tack. Learning to kite foil definitely helped as I knew how to foil and could ride easily once up on the wind-foil.

The problem with SUP-foil for me is that the waves I'm trying to ride have ZERO push. They're barely knee high and it's almost like going from flat paddling to foiling which is impossible for me. Just like I tried to do a running beach start with a foil. LOL The jump up is IMPOSSIBLE unless you're in insane shape.  ;D

I started with a kite LF fun foil, upgraded to the kite Slingshot/Moses carbon foil, picked up a Chinese Takuma clone and fell in love with the big foils for kiting before I even tried it with a SUP/wind. The feeling of big wings while kiting is awesome! Now I'm usually on the GoFoil Iwa/Kai for kiting and try the Maliko200 to fail-SUP-foil.

Once you learn to foil with a kite/SUP/windsurfer the transition to the others will be much easier. At least it was for me from kite to wind foiling. Big wings should make learning a lot easier as well but if the wind picks up it's similary as being overpowered on a big kite, you need to know how to control them.

As far as what you should get to be able to kite and SUP foil is hard to say. I don't know if you'd like the speed of smaller wings or the surf feeling of the big foils. I was once sold on the speed and now all I want is the surf feeling. Slingshot masts/bases/wings are interchangeable, perhaps you should look into that. If money's no object, Moses now has some bigger carbon masts/wings. I've blown way too much money into this to find what I like and I'm still not 100% satisfied.

Yeah, I'm looking at Slingshot just because of the interchangeability and price point. I'm a much more experienced kiter than SUP surfer, I mean, I'm not an idiot on a SUP, just way more time logged on a kite. My worry with it is what you just posted regarding wave size/push. I'm on the east coast with weak waves, I'm not going to foil when the waves are good, so I kinda think, what's the point. When the waves are good, they are generally short period (7-8 second), punchy waves, not the slow, gradual rollers you have in Cali/Hawaii.

So, that's kinda my stumbling point, am I going to sacrifice good waist/stomach high waves to bust my arse trying to foil? Probably not, I may get some mileage out of it kiting however, because there's a ton of days with kiteable wind and no swell, and I'm pretty much at the point where riding a tt and doing airs/rolls is getting old. 
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'3" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

Beasho

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 07:56:41 AM »
My worry with it is what you just posted regarding wave size/push. I'm on the east coast with weak waves, I'm not going to foil when the waves are good, so I kinda think, what's the point. When the waves are good, they are generally short period (7-8 second), punchy waves, not the slow, gradual rollers you have in Cali/Hawaii.

I am confused by the "good" short period (7-8 second) reference?

I learned to foil in California and have spent 2 months in the East Coast.  Ct. / Rhode Island.  I am now feeling sorry for the prone and SUP surfers.  It is like they are glued to the whitewater.  Everyone on long boards going SLOW.  In California I would consider 8 second period crap.  Yet out here I have been flying on the foil WITH NO BODY OUT in 8 second period with wind.  150 yard rides on point breaks flying down the line doing cutbacks punching off whitewater 100% solo.  The East Coast has no idea how good it is. 

Learning to foil will involve 10 painful sessions when you could be SUP'ing or Surfing better.  But when you get good on the foil you will frankly want to sell all your old gear.  My only foil amigo in RI, Paul, just bought a Sunova Creek.  He was lamenting the purchase 3 weeks ago because all he wants to do is foil.  I have shown him how good Foiling can be in onshore winds.  8, 10, 12 mph it doesn't matter on the foil other than all 100 of your friends leave the break.  Paul has seen the light.  He sold his Creek last week.

The advantage, or improved surf-ability, of the foil is higher on the East coast than the West coast.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 08:03:37 AM by Beasho »

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 08:40:59 AM »
My worry with it is what you just posted regarding wave size/push. I'm on the east coast with weak waves, I'm not going to foil when the waves are good, so I kinda think, what's the point. When the waves are good, they are generally short period (7-8 second), punchy waves, not the slow, gradual rollers you have in Cali/Hawaii.

I am confused by the "good" short period (7-8 second) reference?

I learned to foil in California and have spent 2 months in the East Coast.  Ct. / Rhode Island.  I am now feeling sorry for the prone and SUP surfers.  It is like they are glued to the whitewater.  Everyone on long boards going SLOW.  In California I would consider 8 second period crap.  Yet out here I have been flying on the foil WITH NO BODY OUT in 8 second period with wind.  150 yard rides on point breaks flying down the line doing cutbacks punching off whitewater 100% solo.  The East Coast has no idea how good it is. 

Learning to foil will involve 10 painful sessions when you could be SUP'ing or Surfing better.  But when you get good on the foil you will frankly want to sell all your old gear.  My only foil amigo in RI, Paul, just bought a Sunova Creek.  He was lamenting the purchase 3 weeks ago because all he wants to do is foil.  I have shown him how good Foiling can be in onshore winds.  8, 10, 12 mph it doesn't matter on the foil other than all 100 of your friends leave the break.  Paul has seen the light.  He sold his Creek last week.

The advantage, or improved surf-ability, of the foil is higher on the East coast than the West coast.

Ha, well this gives me hope. I think the first domino is about to fall on a kite foil, strapping it to a SUP won't be too long after.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'3" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

SanoSlatchSup

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 10:37:49 AM »
Paul has seen the light.  He sold his Creek last week.
Hahaha...I sold three of my SUPs several weeks ago, and now only have my 9'6"x28.75" Laird (that I can't remember the last time I was out on it), and a 9'6" wide-bodied tugboat I keep for friends who want to come out, and learn to paddle.  :D

Me: 6'1"/200...5'11" & 6'0" Chelu Foil Boards...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...9'6" Costa Azul Wide Body...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm for when proning urges still hit, and 7'3" Chuck Glynn foil board backup.

SUPeter

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 12:25:04 PM »
Since I started SUP foiling (Maine and R.I) I have desired to surf nothing else.  The sport is terribly addictive once you put in the necessary learning time, which can be considerable considering east coast surf is not very dependable.  There are many instances where prone and SUP surfers pack up and go home just when its getting good for foiling.  I too may be selling off my SUP  and prone board collection.  Its that much fun.

SlatchJim

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 01:46:09 PM »
Knowing me, I'd snap that thing the first time out and my foiling career would be one and done, like football...and tennis,

...and motorcycles.

 :-\

norcom

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 07:55:45 AM »
The foil pretty much guarantees a session, no matter the sport. I'd much rather ride in big waves and kite/wind surf in lots of wind but those days are rare here. I'm usually the only one out now. The old school windsurf guys that dont rig bigger than a 5.5m sail are in perpetual waiting. Even the guys with 18/19m kites barely show up though mostly due to injuries.  :D I can't remember the last time I rigged my 17/18m kites though I rigged the 14m for the first time in over a year a few months back just to remind myself why I don't rig big. It's all about the big foils and that glide nowaday!  ;D

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 08:45:35 AM »
I kite foil, windsurf foil, and SUP foil.

Learned windsurf foiling first, then learned to kite foil with tall mast race foil.

Then bought SUP foil and logged hundreds of hours with it on a kite, so SUP foiling was easy and automatic

My advice is get a SUP foil and kite it. It’s the easiest of all foil types to learn with and safest too, because they are so slow compared to race foils.

I’d stay away from Slingshot due to weight. It will make learning to kite foil harder. They are not known for being great pumping wings. Although 2019 wings could be better.

Stay in the track world. It’s better for multi use sports. Cloud 9 is my favorite foil.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 08:47:47 AM by Dwight (DW) »

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 09:47:00 AM »
I kite foil, windsurf foil, and SUP foil.

Learned windsurf foiling first, then learned to kite foil with tall mast race foil.

Then bought SUP foil and logged hundreds of hours with it on a kite, so SUP foiling was easy and automatic

My advice is get a SUP foil and kite it. It’s the easiest of all foil types to learn with and safest too, because they are so slow compared to race foils.

I’d stay away from Slingshot due to weight. It will make learning to kite foil harder. They are not known for being great pumping wings. Although 2019 wings could be better.

Stay in the track world. It’s better for multi use sports. Cloud 9 is my favorite foil.

Dwight - this is helpful, so two schools of thought:

1. I buy a cheaper foil to learn with on the kite, then sell and buy a different one eventually for SUP.
2. I buy one for both right off the bat.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'3" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 11:10:56 AM »
Buy the cloud 9 and be way ahead. The drawback to cheap and heavy applies to kiting and SUP.

With a kite, the weight makes it harder to water start. You have to flip the board on its side, hold it there, before weight sinks it. It just makes learning harder than it should be. Especially strapless.  You want to be strapless.

Then with SUP, there is some belief, foil weight is why guys have to constantly pump, when then shouldn’t need to.   

Here is the p27 wing floating

« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:14:17 AM by Dwight (DW) »

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 05:52:03 PM »
Buy the cloud 9 and be way ahead. The drawback to cheap and heavy applies to kiting and SUP.

With a kite, the weight makes it harder to water start. You have to flip the board on its side, hold it there, before weight sinks it. It just makes learning harder than it should be. Especially strapless.  You want to be strapless.

Then with SUP, there is some belief, foil weight is why guys have to constantly pump, when then shouldn’t need to.   

Here is the p27 wing floating



Yeah, I hate straps as a general rule, I figured I'd get the hooks, and try and outgrow them quickly. I'm still somewhat on the fence, it just seems a lot can go wrong with a foil.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'3" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 06:03:01 PM »
Go wrong kite foiling?  Surf foils kiting are so safe and easy. Now race foils are another story. My wife wants nothing to do with them, but she loves surf foils.

APPST_Paddle

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Re: Kite into SUP Foil
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2019, 02:30:03 AM »
It took me awhile to finally bite on a getting a kite foil, but I did and I love it. It was suprisingly easy to pickup, the biggest issue I had was the front hook would come loose from flexing back and forth, I finally just went with a single strap (although very loose) and I'm having a blast. Pretty much able to stay up and control my height pretty well, on the Slingshot NF2 (H5) setup which I know is less than ideal but I just wanted to get something somewhat cheap to learn on to make sure it was worth the investment.

It definitely was, so.....I figure the rest of this summer getting kitefoiling down a bit better and then roll into SUP and a Cloud 9 foil.
7'6" JL Super Frank Lean
8'3" JL SuperTech 
10'1" JL Black and Blue
14' BIC WS Tracer
Kenalu Ho'oloa 95, Werner Rip Stick 79