Faster vs. Longer - how to train?

[safetyboy]

Some background:

I started paddling about a year ago, and this summer I managed 4.34 mph in a 2 mile race (27:44 time), on my 11'6"x30" SUP.  That was 5 minutes faster than my time last year, and good enough to win my division in the Rec race, but nowhere near how fast the 6-mile racers were going.  For reference, the guys in the 6 mile 14' race were doing between 5 - 6 mph on the same course (1 lap was 2 miles, 3 laps for 6 miles).  So even if I could have kept up my pace for 4 more miles, I would have been dead last in the 6 mile race. 

As a personal goal, I would like to get up to being able to race 6 miles.  At 45 I'm not expecting to beat any 30 year olds, but I would like to not finish last.  A week after the race I tried to paddle at my 2-mile speed for as long as I could - I made it 2.5 miles before I totally crashed. 

So my question is, how to train for 6 miles:

• Do I first work on getting above 5 mph for 2 miles, and then work up to 6 miles?
• Is 5.5 miles mph even possible on my current board?  I gather from other comments on the forum that 14' would only make me 10% faster or so.  But should I start on a longer one?  Problem is, 14' locks me out of the Rec race category around here.
• Or would you drop speed, paddle at whatever rate I can do 6 miles at, and then work on faster?
• Or, a combination of the above?

Thanks for any tips.

- Kevin

[TallDude]

Just about all of us went through the same progression as you. Rec board to longer touring to narrower racing board to longer and even narrower racing boards. Throw in a handful of paddles, and hundreds of miles of training. You're headed in the right direction.
Tips...
A longer narrower board provides more.... glide and less zig zag which you need to go further, faster, and not wear yourself out.
Learn advanced paddling technique.... focusing on quiet in... the catch.. power phase... release.. and doing it repeated with efficiency. (I'm still learning after almost 10 years)
Stay with it, and you will slowly overcome (overtake) the person in front of you:) 

[Lake Paddler]

Regarding training for distance racing, I learned a lot from Bryce's article: https://standuppaddlemag.co.uk/2017/08/21/training-for-sup-racing-a-primer-with-bryce-dyer/.
I've been following the program suggested in this article (currently in the second week) to train myself for a ca. 6 mile race...with my 14'x28" inflatable.

[digger71]

So even if I could have kept up my pace for 4 more miles, I would have been dead last in the 6 mile race. 

You really can't compare their speed in 14' race boards to your 11'6 cruiser.  All else being equal, I would guess the speed difference between the two is going to be MUCH more than 10%.

I'm not a flat water racer by any means, but 4.34 mph for 2 miles on your 11'6 x 30 sounds pretty solid!  Nice work!

[ukgm]

Regarding training for distance racing, I learned a lot from Bryce's article: https://standuppaddlemag.co.uk/2017/08/21/training-for-sup-racing-a-primer-with-bryce-dyer/.
I've been following the program suggested in this article (currently in the second week) to train myself for a ca. 6 mile race...with my 14'x28" inflatable.

Let me know how that pans out. That plan was very generic but it wild be interesting to see how you feel you've improved.

[mrbig]

As a seventy year old aweful racer.

Practice Larry Cain drills endlessly and slowly.

I discovered I needed to paddle at a recreational
(cruising) twice as far as the race. I still mostly do the shorter distances as 7 miles is about as far as my ICD wants me to go.

Speed work for sprints also important, but given my age and physical issues the steps mentioned have worked.

I do paddle year round hence #livinginadrysuit on Instagram.

Just like in Triathalons, some are trying to podium and some are trying to improve from 382 to 297!

You'll have fun no matter what the results!

[yugi]

…
I discovered I needed to paddle at a recreational
(cruising) twice as far as the race.
…

Really?

The general rule is that you need to regularly train 1/2 of race day distance.

…
Just like in Triathalons, some are trying to podium and some are trying to improve from 382 to 297!

You'll have fun no matter what the results!

Yep. Focus on the fun.

I got a funny triathlon story I’ll tell you later. One of my stupidest messups. Boils down to understanding race day effort.

Keep an eye that its an hour 30 ish effort. Then pace yourself.

A friend in a 6 mile race asked me for advice before the start. [probably his first race]. I told him to go full out, not to hold back. He laughed at me. After the race i asked how he felt at the finish. He admitted he could have gone full out the whole race.

If you are in decent physical shape you can go all out for an hour to an hour and half. Obviously with training you do better.

[Area 10]

A friend of mine told me his strategy for race performance, which he maintained was used by all the top guys:

“Make sure that at the start you give it 100%. Then settle down to a race pace a little above that. Towards the middle, speed up a bit, and then make sure you increase your pace towards the finish, finally ending with a sprint”.

Easy

[Lake Paddler]

Regarding training for distance racing, I learned a lot from Bryce's article: https://standuppaddlemag.co.uk/2017/08/21/training-for-sup-racing-a-primer-with-bryce-dyer/.
I've been following the program suggested in this article (currently in the second week) to train myself for a ca. 6 mile race...with my 14'x28" inflatable.

Let me know how that pans out. That plan was very generic but it wild be interesting to see how you feel you've improved.

Sure. I've been tracking my pace, heart rate and stroke rate so it should be possible to do a quantitative analysis later (although the weather conditions will never be the same).

[Lake Paddler]

A friend of mine told me his strategy for race performance, which he maintained was used by all the top guys:

“Make sure that at the start you give it 100%. Then settle down to a race pace a little above that. Towards the middle, speed up a bit, and then make sure you increase your pace towards the finish, finally ending with a sprint”.

Easy

WOW. But maybe by 100% he actually meant something like 80% LTHR...

[Area 10]

A friend of mine told me his strategy for race performance, which he maintained was used by all the top guys:

“Make sure that at the start you give it 100%. Then settle down to a race pace a little above that. Towards the middle, speed up a bit, and then make sure you increase your pace towards the finish, finally ending with a sprint”.

Easy

WOW. But maybe by 100% he actually meant something like 80% LTHR...

He was joking. But only just. The quote is useful I think because it emphasises how hard you need to be working throughout the race. This means that you have to train for that level of exertion too. So quite a lot of people favour a HIIT type approach. Everyone has their own favourite training schedule. But I actually like to train over the same distance I’ll be racing, at least some of the time. This is more a mental thing really: I have to be confident that I know I can do it at the pace I’m doing it at. It’s easy to run out of gas in a race. One young paddler I saw in a race went out too hard at the start and actually puked mid-way through the race (and then went on to win it, albeit in quite a distressed state). This is the sort of thing that can happen if you don’t know your own limits and how to pace yourself. So you’ll have to find something that works for you. But I’d make it a combination of shorter intervals of nearly 100% effort to really max out the heart, with training for the distance and getting to know your limits and what you should be doing and when. In the first couple of years of SUP I found that my max heart rate actually increased around 10bpm. So the physiological changes can be quite profound. You have to get your body used to working somewhere near it’s limit.

Cross-training with cycling, swimming etc can be useful too.

[yugi]

A friend of mine told me his strategy for race performance, which he maintained was used by all the top guys:

“Make sure that at the start you give it 100%. Then settle down to a race pace a little above that. Towards the middle, speed up a bit, and then make sure you increase your pace towards the finish, finally ending with a sprint”.

Easy

Yep. Exactly. And your training should reflect that.

SUP races (like triathlons) require a fast start. You need to train that. Otherwise that sprint start will kill you.

Also practice for the time of day you’ll race. It helps to have your body used to it.

[yugi]

…
 One young paddler I saw in a race went out too hard at the start and actually puked mid-way through the race (and then went on to win it, albeit in quite a distressed state). This is the sort of thing that can happen if you don’t know your own limits and how to pace yourself.
 …

Hahaha. That triathlon story I said I’d tell you… exactly that happened to me. Except in a triathlon it’s deadly.

I usually start triathlons well to the side of the starting line to get a nice clear swim to the first mark.

I bike a lot anyway and I’ve always been a gifted runner (one of my favorite medals is one I got in a cross country race that was awarded to me by Jackie Stewart - for those of you old enough to remember him). I used to compete in swimming and I swim plenty but don’t usually really train it.

One year I really trained the swimming. Including a fast start. So I started the race right in the middle of the starting line. The shortest distance to a bouy out in the water (turnaround 1/2 way mark).

The thing is my usual sports are ski alpinism and mtn biking. Typically huge days out with tons of vertical. So I’m used to eating well the night before and having a massive breakfast.

I did a fast start and was at the head of the pack when, about 1/2 a Km out I literally had to puke. I had eaten way too much and not early enough to digest it all. Before the start they always announce that any swimmer in trouble just raises their hand and they get picked up. In my mind I was done with the race, I was giving up. I couldn’t puke and keep swimming so I stopped and raised my hand. Huge mistake. In no time at all the whole pack of swimmers were literally swimming over me.

So not only did I feel like puking but was literally drowning. So I had to swim out to the side to get clear. Out in the side I could slow down and cruise and started to feel better. So I just swam cruisey to save myself the embarrassment of being carted out in a boat.

By the time the swim was over I was feeling OK again so just kept racing. Working my way back up the pack. (placed 15 / 350)

[ukgm]

A friend of mine told me his strategy for race performance, which he maintained was used by all the top guys:

“Make sure that at the start you give it 100%. Then settle down to a race pace a little above that. Towards the middle, speed up a bit, and then make sure you increase your pace towards the finish, finally ending with a sprint”.

Easy

Yep. Exactly. And your training should reflect that.

SUP races (like triathlons) require a fast start. You need to train that. Otherwise that sprint start will kill you.

Also practice for the time of day you’ll race. It helps to have your body used to it.

The key I would recommend is

Stage 1: Target and develop the physiological development you need.
Stage 2: Tailor the training to be specific to the racing you'll be targeting.

These are both different and stage 2 doesn't always need to be that long a phase.

(Note: I would argue that the only triathlon that requires a fast start is a pro/elite Olympic distance or sprint distance draft legal racing. This is to allow anyone looking to do well to get into the lead draft pack ready for the lad pack of the bike. For everything else tri (long races or amateur level racing), a fast start is racing suicide. Like you, I had some flexibility as I was a decent swimmer and a very good biker. A better example may well be something like MTB'ing (whereby you have to be in a good position before the first sections of singletrack) or cyclocross (whereby a grid start layout will funnel down after the first 30 seconds)).

[ukgm]

1) So quite a lot of people favour a HIIT type approach. Everyone has their own favourite training schedule.
2) But I actually like to train over the same distance I’ll be racing, at least some of the time. This is more a mental thing really: I have to be confident that I know I can do it at the pace I’m doing it at.
3) Cross-training with cycling, swimming etc can be useful too.

It's hard to explain in this limited space here but generally speaking I would say:

1) HIT is a misunderstood fad based on decent research but research that failed to profile the muscular type of the participants undertaking it. I've actually had an interesting week speaking with some people about this (based on my attempting to break my own recent physiological plateau) and about properly profiling athletes to determine their best response to training intensity. The other reason for HIT's widespread popularity is that many people felt they will get the same gains for less time or effort. This all said, I am a very high responder to such intensities and do undertake them for my cycling but it should be noted that some of my bike sessions that utilise these are nearly 2 hours in length.....

2) I agree that's entirely sensible. Well known endurance coach Joe Friel used to say that he'd recommend people training for at 2-3 times the distance they'd race at. Personally now, I would suggest athletes train only as long that produced the physiological adaptations needed. If the gains stop coming, try something else (whether that's shorter, harder, longer, whatever). To give you an intersting anecodte, the GB track cycling team pursuiters race for 4 minutes and were doing steady state low intensity sessions of over 4 hours sometimes. Why ? -Because some of them needed that kind of length to maximise their aerobic capacity.

3) I agree and for the aging athlete, I would suggest this is essential.