Author Topic: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?  (Read 36119 times)

ukgm

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #105 on: September 04, 2018, 11:45:05 PM »
Well, it looks like the ICF have now dropped the term “stand up paddle canoe racing” from their webpages and have (finally) accepted that what SUPers race is a “board”.

https://www.canoeicf.com/discipline/stand-up-paddle

A small but very significant (and probably welcome by most) change.

Perhaps they are finally showing our (admittedly brief) history some respect. The page now looks like it might have actually beeen written by someone who has stepped on a SUP :)

Due to the recent hassles, the battle is now clearly out in the open so the subterfuge of calling it a canoe would only be seen as negative and not a way to curry favour with the paddlers you actually want to support you I guess. That was a sensible move. However, the cynic in me suggests they only did that to make sure it was a clearly defined fight at the CAS next year. Using an odd term that isn't replicated anywhere elsewhere would only harm their case, not help it.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 11:47:53 PM by ukgm »

Lake Paddler

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #106 on: September 05, 2018, 01:35:58 AM »
I paddled a 2019 SB Sprint 14'x21.5" at the weekend for ca. 1 km and found that I could not apply a powerful stroke. Did you experience something similar during you first couple of minutes? How much did it improve after 6 hours of paddling? Could you paddle the Sprint as hard as your All Star at the end?

I found that I could on completely flatwater (with the occasional wobble if I applied a poor stroke) but as soon as i got onto choppier stuff, no. However, i found playing with fin choice helps massively and the faster you can go, the more stable the board becomes. I think a board of this width for me can't just be hopped on after a long layoff or infrequent use like most boards but if i stuck with it, I think with a winters work I'd be ok. However, I'd be more inclined to play safe and opt for the 23 width.
That is good to know! BTW, a fellow paddler (~190cm, 90kg) of mine recently switched from a 2018 14'x24.5" All Star to a 2019 14'x23" Sprint and is happy about it. He is a frequent contestant at the 11 City Tour.

ukgm

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #107 on: September 05, 2018, 11:00:53 AM »
Well, it looks like the ICF have now dropped the term “stand up paddle canoe racing” from their webpages and have (finally) accepted that what SUPers race is a “board”.
Quote

By the way, has anyone heard any rumours if the ICF worlds will be held this again this year after Portugal got canned ?

Eagle

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #108 on: September 05, 2018, 03:08:12 PM »
... Could you paddle the Sprint as hard as your All Star at the end?
I found that I could on completely flatwater (with the occasional wobble if I applied a poor stroke) but as soon as i got onto choppier stuff, no ...
Unless you have the 23 Sprint under complete control in slop and chop it is often better to stick with that if coming from the 24.5 AS.  Moving to the 21.5 Sprint is that one step tippier and often you will not see a gain in speed once conditions get rough.  On flat though -> the speed advantage over the 24.5 AS is undeniable and massive as noted.

So basically if you are skilled enough get the 21.5 Sprint.  Otherwise get the 23 and push it to the limit.  Best to do timed runs in similar conditions.  Ex.  24.5 AS was same upwind as my AS23 -> faster cross wind -> and slower downwind.  Overall the AS23 was 3% faster over my 5 mile loop.  My suspicion is that the 23 Sprint would be about the same -> while the 21.5 Sprint slower over that same route unless dead flat.  Note we virtually never get dead flat conditions in the ocean where we are.

Most around here refer to a SUP as a "paddleboard" as most have no clue what a prone board is.  But the ICF notion that present day SUP originated in Africa was somewhat interesting.  ;D
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Area 10

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #109 on: September 05, 2018, 03:47:16 PM »
Yeah, we’ve been over this “origins of SUP” thing before. For the ICF it’s “whatever you do don’t blame (or even mention) Laird”.

Africa my arse :)

ukgm

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2018, 01:03:48 AM »
... Could you paddle the Sprint as hard as your All Star at the end?
I found that I could on completely flatwater (with the occasional wobble if I applied a poor stroke) but as soon as i got onto choppier stuff, no ...
Unless you have the 23 Sprint under complete control in slop and chop it is often better to stick with that if coming from the 24.5 AS.  Moving to the 21.5 Sprint is that one step tippier and often you will not see a gain in speed once conditions get rough.  On flat though -> the speed advantage over the 24.5 AS is undeniable and massive as noted.

So basically if you are skilled enough get the 21.5 Sprint.  Otherwise get the 23 and push it to the limit.  Best to do timed runs in similar conditions.  Ex.  24.5 AS was same upwind as my AS23 -> faster cross wind -> and slower downwind.  Overall the AS23 was 3% faster over my 5 mile loop.  My suspicion is that the 23 Sprint would be about the same -> while the 21.5 Sprint slower over that same route unless dead flat.  Note we virtually never get dead flat conditions in the ocean where we are.

Most around here refer to a SUP as a "paddleboard" as most have no clue what a prone board is.  But the ICF notion that present day SUP originated in Africa was somewhat interesting.  ;D
I agree with you wholesale.

Interestingly, in the photo's of the recent Danish SUP champs, Casper looks like he is not on a custom but instead racing on a stock 24 width.

Area 10

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2018, 01:08:18 AM »
Traditional paddleboarders call what we paddle a “SUP”. I suggest we do the same.

ukgm

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2018, 02:11:44 AM »
Traditional paddleboarders call what we paddle a “SUP”. I suggest we do the same.

I guess. I think its something not to get too worried or worked up about. Soccer - football. As long as it sees feet on boards, they can call it whatever they like in my view.

Not aimed at you Area 10 at all but the debate over names and causing offence just reminded me of that old 3 minute comedy gag by aussie Steve Hughes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 02:23:24 AM by ukgm »

Eagle

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2018, 09:53:20 AM »
Traditional paddleboarders call what we paddle a “SUP”. I suggest we do the same.
I guess. I think its something not to get too worried or worked up about. Soccer - football. As long as it sees feet on boards, they can call it whatever they like in my view ...
Yeah around here most view "paddleboard" as SUP.  That term is used quite interchangeably.  So not much to argue about.  But in the vid "boy bands" can be deemed somewhat offensive.  ;D
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TallDude

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #114 on: September 06, 2018, 11:33:17 AM »
It's only 25" at one point. Tippy... yes. Fast... yes. Flat water only... yes.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

JEG

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #115 on: September 06, 2018, 02:37:58 PM »
looks fast, tippy & fun.

DavidJohn

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #116 on: September 06, 2018, 03:44:31 PM »
looks fast, tippy & fun.

Tippy or fun? .. You can’t have both IMO..  :)

Luc Benac

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #117 on: September 06, 2018, 04:24:21 PM »
looks fast, tippy & fun.

Tippy or fun? .. You can’t have both IMO..  :)

 ;D
Stable and downwind = fun . The rest who cares.....
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Area 10

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #118 on: September 06, 2018, 04:59:45 PM »
looks fast, tippy & fun.

Tippy or fun? .. You can’t have both IMO..  :)

 ;D
Stable and downwind = fun . The rest who cares.....
:) Quite right.

But if I did want to punish myself with the boredom of flat water paddling, I’d want to do it on a board like TallDude’s.

Luc Benac

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Re: Toothpick, ultra narrow tippy race boards. What would you want to know ?
« Reply #119 on: September 06, 2018, 05:40:46 PM »
But if I did want to punish myself with the boredom of flat water paddling, I’d want to do it on a board like TallDude’s.

Agreed. That would be nicer than a toothpick.
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